Complaint Juggernation

[Waldhein]

In-Game Nickname:  no Nick

 

 

Time and date: maybe 1 week ago / i think it was the first day when Juggernation jioned the server. It looked like they was on the way to find a base.

 

 

Description of what happened: i put my new ender quarry for a test run just next to on my town, later on 2 guys came one was Juggernation wich started to dispatch my Quarry and solar panel and picked it up, i saw it and when i was talking to them that is mine, they killed me and took although my grave. We all had just a discution, what is allwoed and what not. So we are as community interrestet to know, if stealing when is unclaimed is allwawed or not. I dont need that quarry back. We want to know whats right and whats wrong.

"Griefing
Players are not allowed to destroy any of a player's work by any means.

Why do we have this rule?

This rule is in place to assure a player's work is safe from harm's way and that the players of the community can play with eachother in a safe and fun environment.

Am I allowed to take items from an unprotected house?

Our servers use certain protection systems to protect certain areas. That does not mean that if you find an unprotected area it is yours to claim. It is still considered griefing and it will be punished accordingly."

 

 

 

Screenshots or Proof: ask Juggernation he wont deny it. He didnt deny it on global chat. He seem to be proud of that.

 

 

List of eyewitnesses:

 

[Imperatus]

Well as stated in the rule's description it is not allowed.

See here:

Our servers use certain protection systems to protect certain areas. That does not mean that if you find an unprotected area it is yours to claim. It is still considered griefing and it will be punished accordingly."

 

Do u have some screenshoots or any proof? If so post them here and i will apply the punishment.

[Juggernation]

Posting here on topic with my 2 cents:

Quote

Screenshots or Proof: ask Juggernation he wont deny it. He didnt deny it on global chat. He seem to be proud of that.

I said it before, I said it in chat, and I will say it here - I would definitely pvp (and try to kill you) again if I get the chance. Yes, I am proud of the fact that I did it. Yes, it is one of the ways to obtain your head.

Also, I would really like a link to the rules which should be followed, as I could not find the quote by Imperatus on the official rules page, which I usually refer to. If there is another page that I have to take into consideration, please let me know. As per that page, I did not find any rule against PvP-ing in an open area, using self-crafted items in normal mode.

[Y0lin]

Here's the rules page you are looking for : 

 

[Juggernation]

Y0lin, thanks for the link.

Waiting for Imperatus or another mod to clarify whether the page I linked should be considered at all, considering it has been updated recently (Jan.2018)

[Waldhein]

its not about to killing me, that is ok in my opinion, its pvp so fine. But to take a structre of an other player here my Ender quarry + Strongbox , fluxduxts and the stuff inside quarry, could be a vailation of the rules. And that what we want to find out .

 

[Juggernation]

I am pretty sure looting your stuff after killing you is fine. Admittedly I destroyed your grave to loot everything besides your head, but I don't think that's against the rules either. 

Imperatus actually confirmed it in a recent thread:

 

[toluun]

But it sounds like you had every intention of taking it prior to him picking it up.  You then took advantage of him picking up (which he probably did to protect it btw) by killing him and looting his grave.  Pretty shit from my point of view. But sounds like you will get off on a technicality.  PvP is what is is but stealing someone hard earned shit is about as low as you can get in this game.  How lazy do you have to be.  I would assume your friends with missileballistic who acts the same as you.  

[Juggernation]

Toluun, what exactly are you implying? Your personal opinion on lazyness and calling me "shit" have nothing to do with Waldhein's topic and the situation between us both. I'm sorry that I had to quote your thread and I'm sorry that someone killed you at took your items, but what are you achieving here exactly?

How would I have helped your case if I wrote in the thread you made and 'contributed' something in the lines of "Pretty cool that someone managed to get free stuff from you, if he managed to kill you then he deserves them. How pathetic do you have to be to complain about that on a PvP server"? Not very helpful, hope you agree.

[toluun]

I think it was helpful to point out the fact that you had every intention of breaking the rules and stealing his items prior to him picking them up.  If I was the mod I would find this information helpful in making a decision in this matter.  Yes, the other words are my opinion on how I wish people like you didn't exist which were not helpful.  The mods are welcome to delete it if they so choose.

[Juggernation]

You really believe I stole his items because I need them? You want me to not exist for choosing a server with PvP allowed and PvP-ing on it? You think I would not have PvP-ed on said server if I somehow knew he has no valuable items in his inventory? On a server that has vote rewards, regular vote parties and even creative mode for some people?

You seem to have a very different understanding of this game than me. And I don't see how being bitter and blaming me for things I am in no way responsible for is doing you any good.

[Waldhein]

first pls dont get too much emotional, the thing here is that you took it and wihle you was taking the quarry i arrived and told you that this is not  yours to take than you pvped  (pvp ok)  but like i said, i want to know, if taking the quarry and stuff priviosly before pvping was against the rules.

[toluun]

First off I think we have two very different definitions when it comes to PvP.  I take no issue to being killed as you stated, the server is PvP.  However, I believe that breaking someones grave and stealing someones items falls under griefing.  However, the mods had made it clear that breaking someones grave is allowed so like I said you will get off and not get punished.

Second, are you really saying that you stole his items for fun?  That you took his hard earned items and refused to return them for fun?  I mean I can see taking stuff to help speed up your time to end game .  But stealing items and refusing to give them back for fun??  That some psychotic shit.  

[Juggernation]

Toluun, quote me where I said that I took his items for fun? PvP-ing sounds fun to me, and I did it. I don't understand why you want to derail this thread so hard? Is it because your complain was marked as void and you cannot make another thread about it? Please don't hijack this one for that purpose.

On topic: Waldhein to be honest, I wasn't even reading the chat when I saw you. Whatever you wrote would not have stopped me attacking you. From my perspective, I killed you and looted your grave. My friend who was with me would confirm this. No, we were not looking for a place to build a base; If I remember correctly we were looking for oil but not sure if that matters anyway.

[toluun]

24 minutes ago, Juggernation said:

You really believe I stole his items because I need them? 

How else should we interpret this?

 

Also he initially stated you were try to steal his items before you attacked him.  So your on topic response has zero merit.  Explain. Why you were trying to steal his items before he approached you.

Also I'm not derailing this thread.  You are trying to avoid the main issue at play, therefore you are derailing the thread yourself.  The issues is not that you killed him or broke his grave.  wildhein has stated that he takes issue with your initial intention of trying to steal his placed quarry.

[Juggernation]

This is the last time I'm replying to you. Please stop twisting my words.

In PvP I would usually break someone's grave instead of risking that they go /back and re-equip themselves. I don't care whats inside. I don't KNOW whats inside. 

 

Editting my reply here to reply to Toluun's many questions, otherwise mods will have to read through dozens of off-topic posts.

Edit 1: Toluun, I didn't return Waldhein's items because he never asked me for them. I believe he stated in this thread as well that it's not about the items, it's about clarifying the rules of the server.

[toluun]

So once you found what was inside why wouldn't you return the items? Also how am I twisting your words?  I literally quoted you as your asked. Seems like your dodging.

[toluun]

On topic.  See post titled  "[complaint]deathbygerbils]" for relevant information on how pvp was handled in the past.

[Juggernation]

Toluun, I don't see anything in that thread posted by a moderator that says "What deathbygerbils did was not allowed". Didn't we already establish that PvP is allowed in this server? Or are you still somehow trying to make up arguments against me because apparently I'm an evil manifestation of someone that killed you and took your wands?

On topic, I also found a past thread: about someone taking a quarry. See how it was handled as well:

 

Quoting imperatus:

Quote

well u should've set up your quarry properly ... i can show u how to make a proper setup

 

Since this is getting ridiculous and I would simply like to see an answer to the question Waldhein stated in the beginning of the thread, I would just wait for a moderator to just clear everything up. 

[Waldhein]

dont mess things up. One thing is my quarry and another thing is my grave wich i dont care of, because my self think digging a grave after killing someone is ok.

 

But you took the quarry from the ground before you killed me, that is my topic about and you both try to bring it into this gave digging issue. So stop that and we talk about my topic pls read my Post more carefully . (this topic is not about digging the grave, hopefuly you understand soon what i am talking about).

Dont try to get this topic into the rong disscuion, so ppl get confuesed. you was just taking the quary from the ground where i placed it, before i arrived at the scene i was a couple of steps away when you took it. 

[toluun]

I'm not making up any arguements, you wanted helpful in topic discussion and I thought this was that.  Your right it was never explicitly said that the action was wrong and we don't know if deathbygerbils was punished.  However, we do know that the items were returned.  To me this implys that the action of taking the items from the grave was wrong.  Also if you look further down on the thread you posted you will see that the items were again returned. I agree that we need an official ruling, and the server rules updated, to clarify of this taking of items is allowed.

[Henk]

Wow...  This topic got way out of hand. 

3 hours ago, Juggernation said:

Waiting for Imperatus or another mod to clarify whether the page I linked should be considered at all, considering it has been updated recently (Jan.2018)

This is what we should have done, took a step back and wait for a staff to adress the complaint, rather than pointing fingers and argueing. 

 

To clarify....

3 hours ago, Y0lin said:

Here's the rules page you are looking for : 

 

These are not the rules that we currently use; They were made in 2014 and stand more as a general guidelines of our entire community. The rules topic we should instead be concerned with is this one: 

Which you do mention was updated recently- However it made no change to rule 8 at all.

 

[8] No Griefing Any Protected Territory:

• 1st offense = 7 days ban.
• 2nd offense = 14 days ban.
• 3rd offense = 28 days ban.
• 4th offense = 60 days ban.

Includes everything that changes the environment of claimed land. Includes any block, item, action, liquid, that can bypass protection. Includes Griefing of own Town if other members did not agree and worked hard. Griefing spawn is a permanent ban.

This is the rule, and it's what we go by- as staff we strongly discourage griefing unprotected areas because we think it's foul play and is an unfair repercussion for someone simply forgetting to claim their area. However, it's not against the rules.

 

 

20 hours ago, Waldhein said:

they killed me and took although my grave

Killing you is... also fair game. PVP is legal aslong as it's in a pvp area- aka wilderness, nether, the end or twilight forest. It is however not allowed if you are bypassing a non-pvp area to kill someone. Example... using flint and steal under someone's feet. That's no bueno. But you do mention this was outside of your town so him killing you is allowed. Him taking your Quarry is also fair game - 

 

Refund requests are for if the server made a mistake, like removing items on accident- or similar events. And we don't do refunds based off a PVP encounter, but I will offer you to make a refund request of the quarry along with the items with it.

https://forum.craftersland.net/forum/217-technical-support/


Next time to set up a proper Quarry area you create a new town, claim a 3x3 chunk area, put the quarry in the middle and do the following:
/town select <new town>
/town perm set modify true
/town perm set enter deny

 

That will keep it safe from any griefers, and also keep it protected.

 

[toluun]

Could you clarify what happened it the previous thread I mentioned? It appeared that the player was refunded his items that were stolen as part of a PvP encounter.

[Henk]

3 hours ago, toluun said:

The response from brunyman dated Sept. 7. 2018

That's not being very specific on which topic you are talking about, but we are only allowed to refund items based on the terms that I mentioned above.

If Bruny decides to refund a player his items regardless of how the items are lost then that's his decision and he can do what he wants- since he is the founder. 

 

For the record- brunyWANTS PVP on the servers, and therefore there are PVP on the servers. He has previously stated in a discussion between him and staff regarding this subject " PVP IS ENABLED, NOT HALF ENABLED. "

I think that speaks for itself.

[toluun]

Hmm ok.