Puresurvival - Disable Creative Mode

[SlashLife]

Morning,

it's no secret that creative more on PureSurvival is widely abused by giving stuff to other players, to gain unfair advantages in PvP - or to make use of duplication glitches. In my opinion it's time to either ban abusers from creative mode or disable it altogether ...

... or maybe both?

Could it maybe be possible to adjust the server, so the idea of a creative mode can be integrated in a balanced manner that allows fair gameplay for both donors and normal players?

What gave me the idea is that the duplication glitches I know about require access to creative mode: Which makes creative mode doubly unfair: Not only do you get access to "cheated" gear for PvP (which could actually get your victims banned if they -despite the odds- manage to kill you nontheless and then are not even allowed to use the loot they get or risk to be banned for using "given" items), you are also able to actually craft and duplicate legitly *looking* items in unlimited amounts.

Considering the huge numbers of enchanted apples, unmarked enchanted diamond weapons and armour *with exactly the same names and enchantments*, as well as huge stacks of diamond or emerald blocks ... on bunches of NORMAL players, it is quite apparant even to me as non-staff that there is no hope for this world to stay as a survival world.

It is played as a personal creative mode sandbox by *every single* other sponsor I've seen on there - and the other players have the choice to either become a willing fanboy of one of those sponsors or to be repeatedly killed and bashed into oblivion, not even having a glimmer of hope of getting anywhere.

So I have a few suggestions; some of which may need some programming:

a) Disable Creative mode for good. It comes with too much power to be usefully integrated and it comes with too much power to be usefully limited.

Creative mode is basically your one-size-fits-all-get-out-of-jail-free-card of Minecraft.

a.1) Just the fact that it introduces a god mode into a world that -by definition AND name- is about surviving shows how ridiculous it is. Valid alternatives are given much earlier - /feed is given in the VIP package, /heal in Premium. Both *assist* in playing, even in PvP; however you will still need to play like you are in survival, because these commands will only grant you a second chance to succeed, not a guarantee. Which is the whole point on a survival server. If people want to play creative mode - they should join the creative server. Hey, ask BASA ... I was checking out a piece of land, and he kept on nagging me to spawn him stuff, so I killed him and went invisible. He then tped back and was looking for me. As I was still charting the area, I then simply enabled creative mode before invis ran out and kept on charting. I think he wasn't too amused to find that he couldn't scratch me (even though he attempted to do so bare-handedly.) Yes, it was definitely helpful in that moment, but it *is* an unfair advantage, as it is something that normal players don't even have a remote chance to do.

/heal on the other hand is like a free overcharged heal/saturate potion that you can get every now and then. Normal players can do similar stuff.

a.2) Flying ... enabled for Premium users; great for building, unfair advantage over others while engaging in combat. That's exactly why there is a rule against it. In my opinion the punishment (30m jail) is *far* too low for it. imo no need to get rid of it, but increase the punishment for actually using it in PvP. To make it fairer towards other users, it could be disabled by a mod when taking damage - in a way that brings the flying player down to the ground without taking fall damage, then blocking reactivating /fly for several seconds for as long as damage is taken. This way even flying builders could be shot down using a bow, and players might actually have a tiny chance to defend against a flying PvPer. (His subsequent punishment nonwithstanding.)

a.3) I do understand the intention to allow donators easier access to building materials; however as outlined, creative mode does a lot more than just that. Especially: spawning things from creative mode creates a lot of hard to fix loopholes which can be used for duplication bugs, as we've seen. Creative mode is currently given in Premium+. Premium+ also promises "Can get items not listed on creative mode with /item", which is currently NOT enabled. While having to use commands is to some degree less convenient than having the nice creative mode menu, it would provide a single entry point for spawned items, at which their spawning could be limited, filtered, logged and last but not least: The created items could centrally be tagged as spawned by the time they are created rather than when they are taken into the inventory.

So in conclusion, yes, creative mode could be removed. With one exception, everything that creative mode unlocks is available through other means as well. The only exception is god mode, which is too overpowered for a multiplayer survival server anyway.

b) The use of spawned items. Creative mode PvP is banned by the rules. Currently there are many people running around fully equipped in highly enchanted armor and weaponry from creative mode, killing off dozens of ordinary players who have no chance to defend themselves against it. They just keep on dying with no chance to fight back or, for that matter, even NOT to fight back and just continue playing despite their loss: They just keep on going back to the spawn and somehow have to get back to their gameplay, only to be killed off again. I consider this a *serious* threat for the existance of this server: Those people either move away to different servers, because they can't play here, or they are forced to join in the ranks of the gangs around certain VIP players - which perpetuates the whole ritual and only drives off even MORE players.

So in my opinion PvP with spawned gear should be considered creative mode PvP. No exceptions. This should become part of the rules, too.

With a.3) supposedly fixing (or at least avoiding) a bunch of duplication opportunities leading to *un*marked spawned items (duplication leading to *marked* items is a lesser problem, as they could just be created from scratch with a little bit more work), already existing items set aside, every spawned item will be marked as such. I don't know how central the code for PvP damage is, however it must already be maintained by the code for the PvP protection blocks, so it should be relatively easy to:

b.1) Completely disregard any PvP attack made with a spawned item (weapon, tool, whatever you're holding in hand). A bit trickier maybe the distinction between damage done by a spawned bow vs. a spawned arrow. (Imo either should discard any PvP damage.) Possibly a bit tricky as well: Spawned fishing rods: The fix for PvP damage in the above will probably automatically include these, too. However, they shouldn't even hook onto players. (No dragging a player into lava with a spawned fishing rod, sorry.)

b.2) Vice versa: Spawned armor acts as nonexistent on being attacked by a player: It won't take damage from PvP attacks, however it won't give any protection, either. Nope, not even damage from a Thorns enchantment.

b.3) Ooohhh, this is a nice one; people will totally hate it.

On picking up stuff, a check is made: If it is a spawned item and it's about to be picked up by anyone except the original spawner ... it instantly despawns. That would go for unprotected spawned blocks, too: Anyone can break them; they can even drop - but they will despawn the moment you pick them up.

This would essentially disable giving items; no sponsor gangs running around with equipment spawned by a central person, because a) they can't actually equip that stuff as it despawns on pick up and b) they can't PvP with it, either. Using spawned stuff will actually make you WEAKER against PvP, because you'd first need to change weapons and armour.

However, b.1 and b.2 are a necessary requirement for b.3, because it otherwise would even increase the imbalance between sponsors and ordinary players, as a sponsors could otherwise spawn armour and weapons which are essentially unlootable: "Even if you kill me, I will just respawn the same stuff and be back on you. And as my stuff despawns, you can't even use it to defend yourself for the second round. And I can keep on spawning all day."

These are my initial thoughs on creative mode. In my opinion it's far better than what we currently have, however, it definitely still does have some weaknesses:

a) Only occurred to me lateron: Creative mode gives you instabreak. Instabreak is actually bad, because it permanently destroys blocks which could otherwise be used as legit building materials; however, it can be helpful during building (unless you're as clumsy as I am ...)

Some options: Tools. Even spawned tools. Efficiency V will make quick rubble of most blocks. Come on, you're not supposed to spawn those nasty end portal frame or bedrock blocks anyway. Alternatively a spawnable instabreak tool or something similar.

b) b.* does not discuss the influence of potions on PvP. However, I think selectively disregarding potion effects will be quite tricky. In any case it's a problem that already exists, so it's not really a problem specific to this approach, it's just an existing problem that won't be fixed by this suggestion alone.

c) b.3 would allow trolling by for example spawning "false" diamond veins: Someone else find the vein, mines it - and then the diamonds just vanish the moment he picks them up. However, it is currently possible to troll people by enclosing them in spawned bedrock - and they can't even mine it. Maybe spawned blocks should vanish directly after being mined and without any loss of durability to the tool.

Anyway - I'd like to hear your thoughts, additional ideas and especially: Criticism and possible loopholes in my outlined suggestions.

Oh! Polls! I *HATE* forum polls. So I made TWO! Yup, I'm a hypocrite!

[Lexylelelele]

Creative mode is given to Sponsor and Premium + donators to help THEMSELVES.It is not made to help any other players, and the donators have the right to be lazy and just spawn diamonds if they dont want to mine them.Yes, there is a duplication bug that I and Santimatador32 have discovered and that is being fixed.Soon, hopefully, there will be no other bugs, so the staff will be able to keep trace of spawned items and punish the rulebreakers very easily.

[BladeMasterr]

First sponsor costs 50 € not see very fair that remove gamemode1 

for that amount of money. It is now possible to sponsor free and think that's why the server is getting worse. Also you can get free vip and premium and I think about those things getting worse the server.

Thanks for reading!!! !!!!

[GunnerHQ]

I agree with SlashLife about the creative players... I'm a sponsor too on network but I didn't give any items to anyone... not that I play a lot on network since skyfactory opened... but still... Everytime I was entering the server (this was before the 1.7.4 update) Everyone just /tp spamming to me to give them items... I didn't gave any items and after some time players that knew me, said that I'm the most parsimonious sponsor:)) Well I've been tempbanned a few times while I was playing on skyblock, so after that... I said... to get a permban for some items (for god sake i paid 50E for this rank.. its not worth it).

So I agree... Disable creative... Or better still... A new rank idea:

1. No more gameplay changing commands and permissions (though the /fly is quite usefull for building, so might keep it:D);

2. Instead of the command acces and permissions, you could for example make a point system for voting or something... like VIP gets 2 vote tokens more per vote, Premium get 4 more... dunno... or for how long you played on server.. you gather points and convert them into currency...

This way its not that impactfull on gameplay and everyone is happy:D Well mostly...

[SlashLife]

Creative mode is given to Sponsor and Premium + donators to help THEMSELVES.It is not made to help any other players,

That's exactly the only thing it SHOULD be used for. However, basically everything offered by the creative mode will still be available through different means; except of the god mode.

Yes, there is a duplication bug that I and Santimatador32 have discovered and that is being fixed.Soon, hopefully, there will be no other bugs, so the staff will be able to keep trace of spawned items and punish the rulebreakers very easily.

First of all, it has been described before. So you did not find it, you just asserted that it is working on this server. Which essentially *IS* bug using. Secondly, people with spawned items from others might still claim that they got (or lost, if it's the spawner) them in a PvP fight they won. Proving that they were given is far from easy - my suggestions above would completely eradicate the possibility of giving items.

Currently it is also unfair to tell a normal user who just managed to kill a sponsor with a "supa-dupa kill-o-matic-2000 +5" that he is not allowed to continue to use that weapon when the sponsor comes back with a NEWLY spawned "supa-dupa kill-o-matic-2000 +5". Being a sponsor should not entitle you to be invincible against everyone else.

and the donators have the right to be lazy and just spawn diamonds if they dont want to mine them.

And they still could. So your complete argument is void - not surprisingly, as you've already explained on the in game chat that you didn't even read my post.

First sponsor costs 50 € not see very fair that remove gamemode1 

for that amount of money.

First of all: Nobody forced you to donate; btw.: I'm a sponsor as well; I've invested the same amount of money. And NONTHELESS I deem the way creative mode is used against normal players is unfair. It is a survival server, not a "become sponsor or prepare to be bashed without any chance to defend yourself" server - otherwise the owners should at least admit that this is a "pay to win" server.

It is now possible to sponsor free and think that's why the server is getting worse.

Since my suggestions are general, those sponsors would be restricted in the same way. As I've already stated in my opening post: While the creative mode as a game mode would be removed, almost all of its *functionality* would be kept in a different form to reduce abuse and unfair advantages.

Also you can get free vip and premium and I think about those things getting worse the server.

Those are actually irrelevant for this discussion: The whole topic is on spawned items, with just a little bit of "god mode is overpowered and there are more balanced alternatives already available" in it.

There are the "I don't need to mine for two weeks to get the iron for my beacon" advantages,

and then there are the "I can kill you anywhere, at any time, and you will have no chance to defend yourself. BECAUSE I PAID!" advantages.

I agree that giving donators access to the former kind of advantage is a valid way to encourage donations. It has a positive influence for the donator, and as such a positive net influence, because nobody loses on it.

The latter however introduces a win-lose situation. Donators win, normal users lose. Always:

The donator takes resources the he could've spawned for himself instantly, but that the normal user has had to work hard for.

He does this with equipment he can instantly spawn for himself, whereas the normal user has to work hard in THREE DIFFERENT ways to first *find* the materials for his equipment, then *mine* them, then *enchant* them.

Hey! I don't know how, but the normal user has actually won! He picks up the enchanted gear of his donator opponent - and not a moment to soon: The donator is back for revenge. He has instantly spawned NEW gear and goes against our brave normal user who is still recovering.

Wow! Our normal user somehow managed to win again - however with only half a heart left. So before the donator spawns ANOTHER set of gear to finish him off, he quickly writes a complaint to the staff, that a NORMAL user runs around killing people with a spawned weapon. The normal user needs to be punished for breaking the rules!

Die, normal user! Die like the cheap-ass non-donating bastard that you are. We don't want your kind on this server!

</cynism>

[Lexylelelele]

Ok, I am not going to start quote-ing you Slash cause I'm kinda lazy.First of all, "winning" spawned items in a fight is considered as giving them away, so the sponsor/premium + will still be punished for it.

Secondly, as I said before, if somebody donates 50 euro on this server to get the Sponsor membership, he gets access to creative mode.That access to creative mode is given to him in order to help HIM, so he is allowed to spawn items for HIMSELF, but he is NOT allowed to PVP with them.

 

I still think disabling creative mode would be a foolish action.Are you sad because others "cheat" by using CREATIVE items on a SURVIVAL server?You have /invsee, report them.

[simsonas86]

Well instead of removing creative we could add a plugin called CreativeControl or something like that. So the donators that have creative could use it for building, but they couldnt abuse it in pvp or give spawned items to players

[SlashLife]

Well instead of removing creative we could add a plugin called CreativeControl or something like that. So the donators that have creative could use it for building, but they couldnt abuse it in pvp or give spawned items to players

Hey; great! A constructive suggestion including mod information. I like it.

Part of the problem with creative mode at the moment is that it can be used to duplicate legit items, though - and while that's a bug that might get fixed, I think that the fact that creative mode is such a wide area of thing influencing game play is making creative mode a very hard thing to control correctly in all aspects.

If CreativeControl would solve these issues, too: Great! That would still leave those problems with god mode being totally overpowered. But there might be different solutions for that aspect.

[Lexylelelele]

The CreativeControl plugin also sets your gamemode to survival when you attack some1 (might be another plugin, but it is present on factions)

[simsonas86]

The CreativeControl plugin also sets your gamemode to survival when you attack some1 (might be another plugin, but it is present on factions

I think it only disables fly mode when in pvp

[Lexylelelele]

It sets your gamemode to survival, one of my sponsor friends told me.

[simsonas86]

the only bad thing tho its outdated:

Recent files

• R: v6.4 for 1.6.2 Jul 13, 2013
• R: v6.3 for CB 1.5.2-R1.0 Jun 20, 2013
• R: v6.2 for CB 1.5.2-R1.0 Jun 16, 2013
• R: v6.1 for CB 1.5.2-R0.1 Jun 08, 2013
• R: v6.0 for CB 1.5.2-R0.1 May 26, 2013

But i think that we have a great coder here and he could create mabye something like this

[DoNNNy]

Um... how about just making a plugin that will make people with that rank to be unable to spawn: Diamonds, Iron, Gold (they don't need to build with those), bottle of enchanting, notch apple, enchanted books, maybe mob eggs also (to not get xp from them) and also any tool/armors/sword besides hoes. They can build still but will not have access to items that other players would want.

[DonVanhugenstyn]

This is MINE-CRAFT
Yes the Mine means mining, but Crafting and building are also apart of the game. Survival is about survival which btw isn't implied at all in the games name. And creative is to create.

Premium+ members that share items with regular members get Banned. The regular member has also been known to be banned sometimes. So those arguments are invalid.

Maybe your butt hurt that the guy got an item in survival mode that you cant. Because otherwise just report them and they will be banned.

Don't take away something others and I have paid for because you cant afford it or whatever your reasons may be.

 

If you take out Creative I damn well better get a refund of my purchase. And would probably just take that refund over to another server and get creative mode there.

The server has complete world wipes if you want to make a massive great fancy survival world and have it your better off playing single player or with friends on your own created server. Otherwise here your work will be wiped periodically anyways, Which is another reason I chose to purchase Creative mode.

I have my own survival world in single player that I can allow friends onto aswell. One I can build and have and keep and expand upon forever.

[FreakyForester]

You know this topic is really old? Stop necro. T/C