Remove GMC from ranks ~ Under Discussion

[JokoJose]

same can be told about being bias towards those that "support" the server.  I was asked directly by many people to do the post because we have had heavy lagg issues cause by 1 single creative person. 

If creative does not affect non-creative players, why you think almost every non-creative player is against creative? I bet you that if you were to separate creatives in to 1 server and non-creative in to another, the creative server will be shut to hell in less than a month. Fair is fair, most of us have supported the server in one way or another, so we all deserve the right to enjoy it. If a non creative player can make a "faulty" set-up with limited resources, imagine how many "faulty" set-ups a creative can do, specially when they dont know the modpack. That statement that most problems are caused by non creative it might be true in other modpack, but in GTNH server, the biggest issues have been caused by creative (unless we count ross, which can crash the server regardless of rank). 

I understand that money is a factor, but once again, when a perk of one single person can affect an entire comunity, then that perk has to be review. Perks can be modified for the benefit of the server. 

But going further, you "cant" remove a perk from those that already paid for it, right? then how is that Premium rank dont have the perk to keep exp levels upon dying? something that i wrote a forum about and even gave a reminder in this topic. 

 

You can also see the difference of tps when a specific creative person is on, vrs when server is restarted and he is not on. TPS drops when such person is on, but when his base is not loaded, server runs fine. 

GTNH is a modpack that needs a limitation, thats why you guys lowered render distance and tweak here and there to keep it lagg free (Good job on that) but now the issue is tps and its caused by a single individual. So when it comes to been bias, it looks like staff is bias towards whoever pay more and whoever vote more. There are far more people against creative than those supporting it, yet, we are the bias one? 

I been playing GTNH for 7 years since march 29, 2014. What always kill a server is lagg and tps issues. We are not trying to be rude, we are trying to keep the server alive. But when a 1 minute process take 5 minutes to complete, thats when high tiers process take weeks to complete instead of days. TPS ratio today have been 1/5 through the whole day and it only got better with the restart that happened at like 10 mins ago only because the base of the creative player is not loaded. 

The best solution would be to limit creative to structure block only. It gives them a perk, but it will not affect the server play experience for the rest. But if server keeps getting worst, i assure you people will start leaving, i have seen it in the past and it starting to happen already now. 

We are not being bias, we are trying to explain you guys how GTNH works, because this is nothing compared to other modpacks. When a lot of customer are telling you that a product is defected, you should listen and see for yourself and test it yourself so you can see where is defected and how you can fix it. Its easy to manage a store behind the scene, but it is a lot harder when you are there yourself. Try GTNH and see what is actually going on, because it seems that you guys are not getting the full information. It seems that those people that asked me to make this post, havent go to you to tell you how they actually feel. 

I might look like a troublemaker or like a guy that is trying to start something, but the truth is that i only started this post because i was asked directly to do the post.

[Hegemon]

As far as resources.   The mining world has about 20 percent of the resources needed to play the pack.  As you and Bruny point out lag is more often caused by non GMC players however I would speculate that if GMC players account for 10 percent of the population they create 40 percent of the lag. So while your statement is true it is not accurate.  If we then wonder about the motivation to be inaccurate where do we arrive ?  You do not manage and control the GMC on the GTNH server the last time a GMC player was selling items they got warned.  I suspect I will get harsher treatment for this post.  You state that your always instructing players on how to make bases better  yet we have bases that when the person logs in the server drops its speed by roughly 80 percent,  Agreeably this is only determined by counting seconds it takes a machine to complete a process.  We are not attempting to punish all or any GMC players  what we are attempting to do is be able to play this one pack, you state only a minority of GMC players cause issues again I cannot know the veracity of this statement  but accepting it as true then the majority of that minority must be playing GTNH.  Finally I cannot help but wonder about your warning regarding how carefully people should consider there vote .... if there is a vote ...  that sounds like what I would speculate people hear in I duno China maybe before an election ?  I am not worried about the players bias there bias is to make the pack and server playable   I am concerned about the bias of the people that use all of this for income.    

 

 

 

[Tiger]

13 hours ago, D34DPlayer said:

As you can see, we are already aware of the issues you brought, since we have been handling with GMC players on all our other servers for a long time and so there are measures in place to prevent their behavior to impact your experience of the modpack.

Then your measures aren't working. The GTNH server was great when I joined two weeks ago, it's now a mess with constant restarts due to low TPS and crashes. Most of this seems to surround one player with creative. It also seems to have got worse since the server migration the other day. I donate also, as do many others on this server fed up with the constant issues. I'll be taking my money elsewhere unless this situation improves.

[jkl882]

point 1, 2 and 3 really shouldnt be an argument in why to remove creative, as those points are already covered by the rules. Any produce, wheither it be from purposely removing a creative tag.  producing items using creative only etc machines and selling or gifting, and 3, mining ores with creative spawned in tools, and passing them off as "legit / legal" is also punishable.  I think what should be done, is to have a flag on an account which stops a player selling, or somehow gifting items if they've used creative mode.  

When you come to your point about lag, all creative players so called causing lag, will just happen with normal players after a few months once they get to that same progression point. 

[Kiyanox]

3 hours ago, jkl882 said:

point 1, 2 and 3 really shouldnt be an argument in why to remove creative, as those points are already covered by the rules. Any produce, wheither it be from purposely removing a creative tag.  producing items using creative only etc machines and selling or gifting, and 3, mining ores with creative spawned in tools, and passing them off as "legit / legal" is also punishable.  I think what should be done, is to have a flag on an account which stops a player selling, or somehow gifting items if they've used creative mode.  

When you come to your point about lag, all creative players so called causing lag, will just happen with normal players after a few months once they get to that same progression point. 

I will just respond to your last point:
 

Let's just compare. A normal player would need around 500-600 hours to get into IV. From here you really have to have a lot of TileEntites.
A creative player simply spawns a full system into it. Doesn't take 20 minutes. Now calculate how long it takes to play 500 hours in Days.
Not to mention the fact that many players would not play that long because the Modpack is gradually getting more difficult and complicated.

The only argument that works here would be the fact that we are only postponing the problem. However, there is no other option. I'd rather have lag after, let's say 6 months, instead of 1 week, right?

I just think that GMC users simply owe it and try to optimize their systems if they can get it that quickly. 

About the first point.. I think the Management will come to a conclusion.

[Hegemon]

All this post has done so far is increase the number of GMC players.  Some ran out and bought it just incase later it would not be aloud on the server.  All Bruny did by stating that it may be not aloud later is raise his sales.  Even the way the server runs is set up to accommodate creative players the tick rate slows as it loads so right now it takes between 4 and 10 seconds for a game second to pass.  As I write this I have an 11 hour wait to craft what should take about an hour.  If your creative you just spawn it it no 11 hour wait.  The server is tailored to make money and that is it.

[jkl882]

53 minutes ago, Kiyanox said:

I will just respond to your last point:
 

Let's just compare. A normal player would need around 500-600 hours to get into IV. From here you really have to have a lot of TileEntites.
A creative player simply spawns a full system into it. Doesn't take 20 minutes. Now calculate how long it takes to play 500 hours in Days.
Not to mention the fact that many players would not play that long because the Modpack is gradually getting more difficult and complicated.

The only argument that works here would be the fact that we are only postponing the problem. However, there is no other option. I'd rather have lag after, let's say 6 months, instead of 1 week, right?

I just think that GMC users simply owe it and try to optimize their systems if they can get it that quickly. 

About the first point.. I think the Management will come to a conclusion.

ok but dont forget the fact that its big bases cause lag, those bases are the ones required to get to late game. if a creative player skips to the end, they wont have these set ups, meaning less machines, less set ups etc. also by skipping to end game, it will just mean the creative person is likely to stop playing sooner due to the fact that there is no longer anything to do, making the game boring. in this case, their base can be requested to be removed after a certain amount of time (i think its a month? not sure though) but overall im 99% sure that a player building up to end game will cause significantly more lag compared to those who just skip to the end and then leave. 

[Obeliske]

It seems that a lot of people complaining about creative have not actually read the rules on creative use on the server.

People with creative for instance cannot give any creative generated item to somebody outside their town nor can they sell them. There is no "race" to get anywhere. On a private server run by me, myself and two friends managed to get to the moon in the last month without creative. With it I have no doubt we would have gotten there already This server is several months old and as such I have no doubt those with creative have already gone where they want.

I'm going to go ahead and break down your issues here as all of them are either opinion or misinformation.

On 2/4/2021 at 7:30 AM, JokoJose said:

1- A creative person can spawn in any number of item without limitation, allowing that person to set up an entire solar power system in a matter of minutes. Or many, Many automated process to produce items. Those process take a toll on the server tps and because the creative person in question didn't have to gather the mats, he/she will have no problem spawning as many as he/she want. 

As stated by Brunyman a single person creating things in creative doesn't affect TPS very much if at all. Peoples machines running none stop do, by this same point I will point out the EIGHT greatwood trees I passed this morning that somebody lumberjacked down and left all the drops just sitting on the ground... still doesn't affect TPS as anything that's not loaded doesn't actually change state and as such doesn't add server load. As for spawning in the mats to make stuff, your right it does save time. As does flying with an ore finder wand, should that be removed as well? It literally saves hours of work not having to jump over every bit of terrain and finding the ores you want.
 

2- Creative people can spawn the materials to craft a machine, while the materials are tagged as spawned, the machine they build with those spawned items are not tagged as spawned. Meaning that the person in question can craft machines to give to a non-creative player.

This is true, however it's a bannable offence. It's literally in the rules that an object affected by a creative item is not allowed to be traded, sold, given away, etc to anybody outside of the creative persons town. This is also I have no doubt checkable as I have played on multiple servers with the wood stick mod that tells the entire history of a block when touched, I am sure the devs have access to something of this nature.

3- Creative people can also spawn the most efficient way of mining ores and/or oil and once again, while the machine, if spawned, is tagged as spawned, the ores/oil it gathers is not tagged as spawned. Meaning that the creative person in question can pass the ores/oil to another person that is not creative. 

See #2 this is the same thing and still a bannable offence. Also why would they give these items to people outside their team/town.

4- Creative people can also instantly spawn rockets of any tier and fly to any planet, even when most people are still in steam age. Then they can just fly to highly demand planets and "empty" them out of resources before people can even reach them. 

This is technically true but almost impossible to do and would definitely be a form of trolling. Why would a person with creative create a rocket to go somewhere to mine it out when they can just spawn those ores for much less work.

5- Creative people can also lagg the server with in many ways, from massive amount of spawned item, to constantly flying to laggy planets like ross. 

Lag is created mostly when people have many machines running and leave said machines running via chunkloaders.

 

 

In other words, creative ranks hurt the server more than what it helps it. So my suggestions are the next:

1- Remove creative entirely = While i know creative might generate a good revenue for the server, it shouldn't exist in such a hardcore modpack like GTNH.

This is an opinion who decides at what point a modpack is "hardcore" enough to warrent the removal of creative. Creative affects nothing that you do nor anything that anybody else does except for this "race" your talking about and if your here to race to other planets your already to late. Also what about keys, should they be removed as well as they give free items? It's a "hardcore" modpack afterall, where is the line drawn?

2- Only allow structural block on creative = This will still give the creative to those that want it, but will limit them to only structural items to build a base. Like chiseled blocks, but remove access to any ore/ingot/fuel/machinery or any material that is not used to build the structural part of a base. 

What if said people want to make things out of metal? I have creative and am about to start building my base out of iron blocks. Who are you to decide what blocks I am allowed to build my base out of. On top of this most bases I've seen on the server tend to be very minimalistic and built out of cobble, if I want to build my base to look good doesn't that 1, remove me from this "race" you want as I'm going to be busy doing that? 2, not work as literally every block is used in the crafting of other blocks? I mean I've used dirt to make fertilizer. and 3, middle game bees, trees, and thaumaturgy all allow you to convert and create blocks out of almost nothing anyway.

3- Creative server only = while this is more cost to owners pocket, it will create 2 separated server, 1 for creative people and one for non creative people. In that way you dont have to be monitoring who gives what to whom. It will also remove the stress cause by creative people on server with non-creative players. 

I have no argument for this except I'm against splitting up of the population. I am playing with 5 friends who do not have creative. If this is a thing then people need to be able to decide which server they want to play on and that still means who I give items to would have to be monitored as would any other person who joined it thinking it meant they would have creative. People are pretty friendly and want to help each other most of the time. Also people who intend to get creative at a later date would have to be able to play on the creative server prior to that or they would have to restart and almost nobody is willing to do that once they've worked a bunch on their base already, this would mean there would actually be people making purchases to support the server. I think this would lead quickly to the shutting down of one of the two servers that's not being monetarily supported as it doesn't make sense to have it.

4- Move creative rank to S+ but with structural purpose only = Creative is the strongest tool in the game, it should be the most expensive perk to buy too, but it should be limited. 

This is an opinion, it has been stated multiple times throughout and doesn't need it's own point. Also see your point 2 and my response. Every block is used in the creation of something else in this modpack. Name me a block that doesn't turn into something else.
 

For those who skip, I put each arguement directly after it's point in the quoted text above.

In addition to all the above what about a player who has reached say HV tier giving the new player in the stone age his old items that he doesn't use anymore? Does this not mess up the "race"? Should we disable all trading as well?

So at this point we have no trading, no teams, no creative. All in order to make sure this "race" is a fair one. 
It honestly sounds like you'd rather be playing single player at this point.


@brunyman and @Kiyanox
I personally would worry immensely on a vote. It would end up being very polar and quite likely with creative being heavily voted to be removed by people who do not have it (because they outnumber those of us with it). The fact is people without perks either are not supporting the server monetarily (because either they cannot afford it, because they are to young to spend their parents money, or because they choose not to/to spend their money elsewhere), or because they have decided they have supported enough. The fact is the servers require money constantly each month and creative is a good perk to supply to people provided it's not abused. This aside as long as the people without creative outnumber the people with, the vote will likely swing in that direction.

That last bit is the big thing though isn't it, all of the people in this thread are assuming abuse or that it gives a huge advantage. The fact is you guys (the mods) are good at curbing abuse and any advantage it gives depends entirely on what a persons goal is and that's it. My actions should I build a rocket to the moon when I log in have absolutely no effect on the actions of any other player. JokoJose is positing their post on the fact that there is a race in the game. The issue is there is no race in the modpack, I've seen multiple people mention this but it's not a race. The fact is if it were teams wouldn't be allowed. The argument here is for a level playing field between the "haves" and "have nots" but it continues in the fact that if me and my 6 friends all start a base and work together we will get further in the game then the player who plays on their own and much faster. There's no level playing field in a team game with teams of one either.

There is only one fact here and that is simply that in Minecraft you LITERALLY make your own fun with your own goals. My actions and the actions of people with creative (along with proper moderation of course) have absolutely no effect on any other players actions on the server unless those players allow said actions to affect them. This post is positing a race, obviously JokeJose feels the need to race people on the server, I do not, I will not be part of any race. I just do not give any cares about it. I will continue to use creative to craft my base into something I like.

Should a vote happen I would argue for only people with creative getting a vote. It affects them the most and as I've stated the people without it don't have it for a large number of reasons. This means that it would be to hard to moderate who's voting because they have actually thought out both sides and people who have made excess accounts just to vote with. It's easy to vote to take something away from somebody when you don't have it and so will be unaffacted.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

EDIT: Rather then making a new post.
JokoJose your second post reads much different from your first. Your first is very well posited and well thought out your second, I got two sentence's in and skipped the rest because it feels most like a tantrum and playing the blame game more than an actually useful post. I did this unconsciously and forced myself to go back and read it in it's entirety, it doesn't get better. I tell you this not to argue or fight but in an attempt to tell you how others are going to read it, if they do that then your not actually going to get your point across to anybody else. It seems you have an issue with one particular player in which case I would suggest reporting them to the nearest mod as causing server lag on purpose is also a punishable offence.

Hegemon your posts don't read any better, you very obviously make accusations you have literally nothing to back up with. You appear to be inflaming and inciting issues rather then actually have any useful or rational thing to add. On top of this I am going to point out one of the points you make with counting seconds doesn't work. I've played this modpack in single player and the timers given on machines for things to craft are inaccurate to say the least, it's better to work with ticks as they show server lag better imo.

 

[Kiyanox]

Why would a vote be very polar? Why should I vote against GMC if it has no bearing on something.
This is not a race. You are misinterpreting this. There are 2 problematic aspects:

Pollution: 
Pollution is very difficult to control. If someone just spawns a T8 Rocket in and starts it, then they usually don't care about the side effects. Pollution spreads over to other Chunks, you should know that when you have already reached the moon There have been a couple of cases where someone has spawned T8 Rockets and created massive amounts of pollution. This is then skipped over to another player and his complete Base was "devastated".

Parallel Ticking:
In GTNH, the tick rate determines the speed of the machines. The tick rate is getting lower the more TEs are running at the same time. Since many GMC players want to build a relatively complex base and also build complex systems and processing arrays there, they only promote the slowing down of the tick rate. At a Tickrate from 1:4 ( 1 Second ingame takes 4 seconds in RL) nobody wants to play there anymore. In Midgame you have to wait several hours for materials to be processed. I personally don't want to wait 4h for a Material that should only take 1h to process. Of course, every normal player does that, but the difference is that a GMC player spawns everything in a split second. Of course, that won't fix the problem, but we will delay the problem from Days to Months.

You are also welcome to visit other GTNH servers. I am sure that hardly anyone gives out GMC for a good reason. GMC is not intended for this modpack. It destroys the sense of the game.

[Obeliske]

By your own admission though the issue isn't the GMC players it's the machines themselves. Having the problem now vs having it later doesn't change it. The OPs argument is that it's caused by creative players is wrong.

I'm aware that pollution spreads but it also dissipates. I'll be honest we ran a net neutral pollution base by using steam until midway through MV then switching to a railcart farmer and using a pyrolyzer on the charcoal to get benzene so the rocket launch we had a few days ago didn't do a whole lot and dissipated rather quickly the three people who remained in the base while myself and BUD switched over to the moon to get us set up there only had issues for a short time. This seems to me an issue of people doing things the fastest way possible (in other words racing).

My comments on the "race" portion of the game are because both the OP and last time I was online ASOOD (I believe, though don't quote me on this as I have been inactive for a few months) mentioned the race, also specifically the OP talks about how creative "ruins the race"


You may or may not remember me from a few months back Kiyanox but the fact is I was enjoying the modpack so much I wanted to get some friends in on it. Two of which were deadset against playing on a public server. One because she's afraid of being griefed and another because he doesn't like creative being an aspect that players can purchase. When I pressed for details and pointed out that one player having creative he listed almost item by item what the OP has listed and, when I listed the counter arguments to him he persisted. The fact is that he also sees the game as a race. On our private server he played until he started perceiving that he wasn't going to win said race. See he decided to go it alone and I did not want to. So originally we had of eight people two together (myself and my girl) and 6 other solo players, as people started realizing the benefits of joining a team and working together everyone started joining the currently existing team except him. He decided instead of joining the group it wasn't a race any longer and stopped playing. The fact is that when his perception of the game hit a point where he saw that he could not "win" under his own viewpoint he chose to stop playing instead. Not one of the rest of us saw/sees it as a race. We play to have fun and build stuff. The OP mentioned it ruining the race and so (to me at least) this is the same thing. The OPs perception of the game is (imo) flawed and instead of changing their perception is attempting to force their rules on other people and when that inevitably doesn't work, will they quit to? In the end if so then they would quit at some point anyway and it's not a loss.

My racing comments are strictly based on the OPs post as that is what I am replying to, I had tagged you as I have been gone a few months and didn't realize your no longer staff. I simply responded to the two people I saw as staff who had responded in the post. My apologies.

As for the vote being polar, it's because as I stated (though not in these words) some people are against removing creative for a large number of reasons they haven't fully thought out. Your thinking people will vote with well argued and thought out reasons. I argue people will vote because it's easy to take away something you don't have and doesn't affect you. If I thought for a second that creative actually has an effect on the server and the people playing on it I would vote to remove it but the speeding up of a problem doesn't negate the fact that it would be a problem in the first place. I'd rather get to the problem and fix it now then waiting six months to find out it's unfixable and I now can't progress.

Also FYI, I do play on other GTNH servers and on other CraftersLand servers. Please explain to me how creative "destroys any sense of the game". You know... the one where you set your own goals, work towards your own fun, and do your own thing?

[Kiyanox]

So you wanna say, that "Having the problem now vs having it later doesn't change it". I'll give you another moment to think about it again and reflect. (Maybe check how CL handles the Server after an uptime of like 7-8 Months


 

Quote

I do play on other GTNH servers and on other CraftersLand servers. Please explain to me how creative "destroys any sense of the game"

I'll explain it for you again. (it should be self-explaining)
GTNH takes several Months, even up to a year, to finish if you are not that experienced. Planets and large systems should feel rewarding as soon as you're able to craft it. We still talk about spawning in every machine, every Item and so on. It is hard for a good reason, not to spawn the stuff in i just need. That is the sense of the Modpack. 
"Work hard, automate your factory and get rewarded for your hard work" - Yeah, hard work and a thank you as a reward is a foreign word for some............ 
 

[Obeliske]

I think the issue here is that you and I have different ideas of what a reward it. I like planning and implementing a good looking and well running base, that is my reward. That makes me happy. I spent literally 12 hours optimizing one machine two days ago that gave me joy finishing it. 

I'm not sure what your idea of a reward is but it has no bearing whatsoever on what I enjoy and what I want to do. It also doesn't change that in six months if I can't continue then why play now. What if it's Mars. Nobody can get to Mars, it's not the end of the game but you can't progress past there, why bother playing now if that were the case? The fact is if it's going to be an issue ever then it needs to be dealt with now, not when it becomes an issue and people can't get past that point and if people in creative are allowing these types of issues to be found now then I think they deserve our thanks personally because I don't want to find out in six months that I can't actually finish the game.

Your not explaining to me how creative destroys anything your giving me your opinion based on your opinions. For all it matters I could still be playing on my private server for all the effect my having creative has on you. I have not affected you in any manner on the server, I have not bought, nor sold anything to you, my pollution hasn't reached you, literally nothing I've done has affected you.

The best part is your not even claiming that what I'm doing is causing you lag, the OP IS claiming that creative causes lag. All creative is doing (by your own admission) is bringing problems to light faster then they would have been brought up before. Which is IMO a good thing.

So again, please explain how my having creative affects you on the server at all.

[Hegemon]

 

What do you care then Obeliske you don't play the game on CL. You do not address the ticking rate and waiting 12 hours to process something and having your neighbor just spawn it.   As you point out all games are for enjoyment so what ever motivates someone to wait 12 hours to create something giving it to the next person in .12 seconds would probably annoy them. 

let me reverse your thinking for one second What is the point of playing GTNH with creative ???   If your honest there is none   no trying to figure out how to generate power no trying to explore and find things  no trying to set up efficient processes.  You just spawn yourself the I won the game tag and your done.   

The only other valid reason is human nature.   The GMC players are there to feel superior full stop  and yeap the people trying to play the game properly (at least some of them) are smart enough to figure this out and yes it annoys them.  It will hurt the server because the non GMC will eventually leave and the GMC will then immediately leave because they have no one being sold to them to be better than and no other reason for playing.   

Your argument is basically that the rules applying to you do not affect others playing the game if they are different so let me ask have you ever played a game with no rules......   or variable rules I will keep it simple for you   name me one game ever that humans participate in that has no rules.   Your advocating for a game of football where a touchdown is 7 points for one player and 700 for the next  the only person playing will be the one with GMC  and then they wont even play because they have no one to beat. 

 If this escapes you then in my opinion your not capable of grasping the issue hear.  

 

[Obeliske]

I do actually play on CL thank you In fact I just bought another friend of mine the second tier reward yesterday, he's not the first and certainly wont be last. It's one of the ways I try and support the servers, what did you say you've done again?

I build my base out of good looking blocks depending on the theme I'm going for. My last one was made out of thousands of bricks that I manually collected over the course of two weeks while I had people insulting me because I made a good looking base and they felt it was a waste of time because it's not their idea of progress (this behavior actually precipitated my leaving the server for a while). This time I'm using creative and making my base out of DarkIron blocks in an attempt to create something more futuristic. Or do you think I should have to wait two weeks of grinding quests and then spend two months collecting materials just to start building the base. Keeping in mind as well that likely the server will get reset in a year, two at most. Which means I would likely spend most of my time building and then not get to actually progress.

As for trying to figure out power... That twelve hours I mentioned before? Well between you and me I gave up after about 3 and went into creative to get the setup done properly, that initial three hours was spent breaking and placing the same 40 blocks over and over trying to get the right grid, then it was 9 more hours trying to figure out the right mix of machines and parts to send into the Pyrolyzer to get Benzene in a self contained and producing machine. Having to do that in survival would have easily taken me twice as long. The fact as I see it is that most people aren't trying to build the most efficient machines what with their drive for what they see as progress. You blame creative people for the lag but they are far outnumbered by the inefficient non-creative players who could care less about having to work harder in order to make things more efficient and therefor easier on the server.

Your third paragraph literally makes no sense, you think if non-creative people leave others wont immediately replace them? The fact is as I said I have 7 friends all noncreative who are joining the server over the next few days four already have. Your just not that important and if your not buying things in the store your also not helping the server. Trying to get people to donate for free has proven time and again not to work.

Your last paragraph is also a null argument. What I gather is that you see the game as a race that people with creative have a massive head start in. Your right, if you consider the game a race. Fact is it's not, it's Minecraft one of the few games where you LITERALLY make your own fun by making your own goals.

You keep making the same arguments without actually using anything to support them.

I am going to go ahead and address the tickrate though as it's been pointed out to me twice,  the fact is your wrong about it. Anybody who is playing this mod and complaining about the tickrate is in my opinion an idiot. I played it a bunch with my friends as I said on a private server (which I have decided to stop paying for and will be shut down on the twelfth) and with 8 of us on we could see a noticeable bit of lag which I originally attributed to the server. The fact is though, that it wasn't the server it's the modpack. There is so much going on even with only a few people on that it creates server lag increasing the tick rate. I was on the CL servers yesterday when there were 15(ish) people on and there was a noticeable amount of lag. Two hours later when there were four of us there was none, even though 2 of those four were obviously fully afk in order to let their machines run.

Fact is the afk people are adding more to the lag then the creative people and it's the number of people on the server running everything that's causing issues not the creative people.

Hegemon you have obviously not read a word I've written, you have this idea in your head and no argument put forth is going to change it. So I'm not even going to bother trying.  As I stated, if I thought even for a second that creative had a negative effect on the server then I would happily give it up. But my ability to make a machine and optimize in in minutes/hours is definitely better then doing it over days, or even (as most people are doing) not bothering to optimize them at all. If you can't be bothered to make coherent sentences and actually attempted to engage rather then trying to put the onus on me I am simply going to stop attempting any discourse with you.

[EPICfighters]

All your points have been read and will be discussed on what will happen in the coming future.

For the time being, this topic will be locked. This is because you're all just reiterating the same points in multiple replies.

Topic Locked ~ Under Discussion.