Minimum Price-tag on certain items

[Yusixs]

Hey guys its a me...mario!

So after playing from scratch to the final stages of sky factory 2, I experienced a ton of discussions and one of these has always bothered me for a long time.
The statement goes by:

"Guys I am selling 64 blocks of xyz item in market for only 1$ come get it" (Where the xyz item usually costs 1000's of dollars.)

Some of you may come along and say "Well he isn't breaking any rules if he isn't giving them for free" but do realize that he is selling an item which is so cheap that many people, if not, everyone can afford it and this goes for beginners aswell. People who are new in skyfactory should experience the very basics of the mod and work their way up to be proud of their achievements. Yes, they can do dealing with other people in gaining resources on a fair price point but the price of the item shouldn't be that low so it disturbs the servers Economy and gives a 'cheaty' boost compared to the other beginners

"Yusixs you do realize that skyfactory is meant to be OP right?" This should only go for late-game people who have automated alot of the stuff and should sell the stuff according to the price-tag. (E.g I would sell 4 awakened draconium blocks for 750$ for all earlygame-lategame types of people, there should be consistency) Please note that this is not based on market competition, this is based on not destroying the servers economy while side by side giving players a pretty clear concept on the value of certain items in such a way that they would market the rest of the lower-tier items on a fair price aswell. 

So following up on that, I and several other people agreed that there should be a minimum price-tag on Certain OP items in the market plug-in to avoid ruining the playing experience for the beginners. For example, 1 Draconium block would go for 200$, 1 Mass Zivicio block would go for 150$ (20k Minicio), Dragon hearts wouldn't go less than 500$, same price for reinforced watering cans.

Even if that's done, what about the auction. Well the auction plugin already needs to fix the "unknown" issue first and if we adopt this minimum price-tag in the market, this would also follow onto the auction by people themselves :D! I need your opinions on this if this would truly help make the server better.

[Coasterrider1]

a base price should be add so badly but not Only for Skyfactory

[itsz]

This is a very good idea and it should keep how the game should be. not too easy, not too hard. Whats the point of playing a modpack that should be hard-ish but it can turn into easy because you can gain the item easily buy buying "xyz" item for cheap price

I imagine how this would be possible is there is this /market pricecheck this is the average price of people sell item, now how we can implement this is maybe after a different player put that item in the market for 5x it'll automatically set the average price which will turn into minimum price, now player who will put in /market has to put greater than or equal to the minimum price that has been set, but there is a problem, i don't know if the /auction plugin can interact between the market where it'll get the item's minimum price then the auction plugin can check it, but i see the floauction(if im not mistaken the auction plugin) only detect vanilla block i don't know if the plugin can interact with each other, the variables can turn into static variables where they can interact each other

 

Nevertheless this is an awesome idea to fix the economy because i remembered when the first time i joined skyfactory the item was like $5000 where now you can obtain it $300

[quagma]

I think you can check the price of an item, or what it should sell for, by running a command. I don't recall the command at this time, but I've used it before, so I know it exists. I'll have to check what it was, and as soon as I remember it I'll post it. If regular players don't have access to it, then it should be made accessible.

[Henk]

I agree with this, I think the rule against " drop parties " is loosely defined, it's set in place to prevent late-game players to boost beginners to the server so this in my opinion should fall under the same rule. 

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@Yusixs:  Even if that's done, what about the auction. Well the auction plugin already needs to fix the "unknown" issue first and if we adopt this minimum price-tag in the market, this would also follow onto the auction by people themselves 

Sure, I agree with this too, I don't think the same exact limitations should be set on auctions, as the auction is usually never as profitable as the market is - for the seller -. As it's usually a gamble for the aucitoneer but I agree some limitation should be put here aswell.
Also, regarding the " unknown " issue, I'm not sure how the plugin operates but if it's literally just a list of Item ID's and names together with those ID's and all that is needed to be done is to add on that list... if that now IS the case I'm willing to help out completeting that tedious task @brunyman. For skyfactory, to begin with.

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@Coasterrider1:  a base price should be add so badly but not Only for Skyfactory

 

Definitely so, I think this would improve the overall quality of the entire network - granted, it's already keeping a very high standard.

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@quagma:  I think you can check the price of an item, or what it should sell for, by running a command. I don't recall the command at this time, but I've used it before, so I know it exists. I'll have to check what it was, and as soon as I remember it I'll post it. If regular players don't have access to it, then it should be made accessible.

 

Yes, you are right, Itsz mention it in his post, " /market pricecheck " it's a very handy command that shows the overall average selling cost of any item, this also goes for the market tho. And I believe alot of us that post on the market check this regularly when we post our auctions, and say something is usually selling for $200 a stack, and then someone sells a bunch of stacks this one time for $1 each... that will drastically change the average and effect us in the future when posting markets.

 

This is my opinion of it all, of course I would agree with this as I am quite competitive on the Market and Auction, but my opinions are formed around what would be best for the server and I believe this would.

I wise friend of mine once said that; " After you've hit the end-game it's as if you're in creative mode - You can get any item you wish to have and you technically have unlimited supply for everything. " - Greenbox.
Now we don't allow our donators to give away or sell stuff using their creative mode... so why should we let these people give away stuff that's worth a fortune for a fraction of what it's worth.

[brunyman]

Question is how can we implement this

[quagma]

Is there a plugin of some sort? Maybe one that doesn't let you set the price lower than what /market check prices says? 

Also, for modded items, most don't have a price set, so that's something that staff will have to do.

[rioot123]

you could easily sell something that's worthless like cobble for like 5000 and if someone actually buys it wouldn't that drive the price up alot

 

[itsz]

Well the easy way to implement this w/o automation plugins thingy thingy we can force a new rule stating where price must be more than or equal to /pricecheck? and admin can remove an item from the shop if its not a fair price

[Direwolf20]

I seen an economy on another server where the rule is to not list something for more than the sum of its parts, and the elements are set and can be viewed through an administrator boss shop.  However it doesn't prevent people from giving stuff to friends or selling it or auctioning it manually for less, and eventually they made a plug in that calculates the minimum price, and for unusual items it prevents selling.  The overall effect seemed to be that no one really sold anything even when the limit on amount of items for sale was removed.  At first the administration had to manually remove offending stores with no refunds to the seller.  I think the reason was that the amount of stores decreased and thus the value of the money itself decreased.

 

What would help that is making the money more valuable even to end game players by making it possible to buy certain things for great amount of money, possibly things that expire over a period of time, such as a name tag prefix that is only valid for 1 month but is renewable for say 40000.  Or certain commands.  But also put a limit on the number of transactions each player can make each day (preventing abusing selling mass amounts of really cheap items).  Something simple like a tax that needs to be paid for something vital like having all ten hearts jnstead of 3 that you could cover for about a week with voting on all sites and getting reward 1 day would also get players to vote more and value the money.

[Yusixs]

7 hours ago, brunyman said:

Question is how can we implement this

Okay so here it goes. There will be a algorithm which does the following

Let's suppose 4 awakened draconium going to get a minimum price. So for that the first 5 [excluding rule breakers] different sellers selling them would contribute into the minimum price. Here is how it goes

( n = item )
(x = price per item )
(y= average price per item)
(a = number of pages) <- Has nothing to do with the algorithm but it has its uses later on

Rule: x[value] price will not be considered if there is a +100$ or -100$ difference than the earlier prices

Person 1:
Sells 64 n for 9600$
1/64 * 9600 = x[1]
Now x[1] has a price per item of 150$

Person 2:
Sells 4 n for 800$
1/4 * 800 = x[2]
Now x[2] has a price per item of 200$

Person 3:
Sells 128 n for 100$
1/128 * 100 = x[3]
Now x[3] has a price per item of 0.78$ but this will not be considered because of the rule

Person 4:
Sells 1 n for 100$
1/1 * 100 = x[4]
Now x[4] has a price per item of 100$

Person 5:
Sells 5 n for 950$
1/5 * 950 = x[5]
Now x[5] has a price per item of 190$

Person 6:
Sells 4 n for 800$
1/4 * 800 = x[6]
Now x[6] has a price per item of 200$

Now the average will be calculated
{ x[1] + x[2] + x[4] + x[5] + x[6] } /5 = y               ( I know im breaking the [ is bigger than { rule but bear with me )
150 + 200 + 100 + 190 + 200 ]  / 5 = y
840 / 5 = y
y = 168$               (Average price per item)

Now the minimum price per item will be calculated as
Note: You can change the 0.9 value to 0.8 or 0.95 during the code
z = y * 0.9 
z = 168 * 0.9
z = 151.2$             (Minimum price per item)

This is how the minimum price per item should be done, many thanks to itsz for giving this idea.

But now here comes the contradictions, "What if person 1 set a ridiculously high or low price, since there will be no price per item before that person, what will we do then?"
For that is where the staff team comes into play. There will be 3 commands made:

/listmarketprice <1 to a> (Where the minimum price per item is listed from highest to lowest with the given item id and name) ( 10 items per page ) 
/abolishprice <item ID>  ( Abolishes minimum price per item on a specified item, if no setprice command has been set on that item, then the algorithm will take part again )
/setprice <item ID> <price> ( Self-explanatory but this sets the minimum price per item on the specified item ID )


Using these commands, the staff can maintain the market's prices manually if anything goes wrong.
Opinions will be highly appreciated

[Yusixs]

Sorry for double posting but I wanted this solution to have its own post.
So, Henk brought a pretty good idea for solving this but unfortunately he is busy so I will be making this post on behalf for him.

As someone is about to post their first market listing, A Rule book is given to his market mail explaining the tier price points of items
The tiers range from 1 to 4 in the following manner:

• Tier 1: No minimum price limit .        (E.g cobblestone, dirt, mostly vanilla items or effortless items.)
• Tier 2: All/most of the ores in-game. The minimum price of the item would be * 1 to the number of item/s.         ( 64 diamond blocks would go for 64$ )( Seperate rule for ingots )
• Tier 3: The minimum price of the item would be * 2 to the number of item/s.       ( E.g Mid-game stuff, Zivicio, Enderium, Pyrotheum, Draconium, Bedrockium ) 
• Tier 4: The minimum price of the item would be * 3 or more to the number of item/s.       ( Dependent on the rarity of the item )( E.g Awakened draconium ingot, Chaos Shard, Green hearts, Dragon hearts etc. )

"By making the rules out of this and giving powers to a select few to be able to cancel markets, staff doesn't have much to do on the server regardless, why not give them another mission? This could also be trusted by quite low staff members, say judge+ or just perhaps a select few trustworthy people." -Henkekalmar

The categories would almost be too obvious so that there wouldn't even need to be a full list about it. Players themselves would be capable to imagine the value of certain items by proportionally following the information in the rule-book. This method is far faster than coding a plug-in and would improve the servers economy equally like the plug-in solution above.

 

[itsz]

Maybe the tier can be break into 3

Early-game stuff (t1)

Mid-game stuff (t2)

Late-game stuff (t3)

 

Im thinking mod's tier? Like for example vanilla stuff goes under tier 1, applied enegistic 2 goes under tier 2, thaumcraft goes under tier3? And so on?

[Henk]

Simply an example and would have to be more refined if to actually be taken into effect.

This would be a great alternative to a plugin, since I imagine there would be alot of work to get a plugin like this to work and this would perhaps be an easier concept to implement.

But then IF players break it there must be some sort of punishment... is it possible to make a " market ban " for a peroid of time?

[Direwolf20]

Agreeing on minimum prices, policing sellers giving market bans and coding plugins, just seems like a recipe for disaster because it would mostly cause conflicts and at the end, if everything works, there might be hardly any selling making the attempt to fix the economy amount to killing the fun of economy and simply reducing the economy and making it scary to sell things.  As it is, there is hardy any worth to amassing wealth and no money sinks, I would suggest making the server money more valuable first or at same time as mentioned in my post above.