About rule instatement and enforcement.

[SpintecatorulAlb]

     In my honest opinion, punishments had a minimal magnitude lately. The rules are rather poorly formulated and punishments for violating the same rule more than three times (at most) are made no specification about.

     On top of that, consequent punishments on breaking the same rule should have a greater magnitude (it is stated so in the rules), although I've seen players breaking a rule more than once (in a short span of time) and receiving the first offense penalty, which says that staff only rarely look through the sanction list of a player prior to punishing him/her, if you want proof on this, you have tens of players with 2+ page long lists of bans.

     In addition, even staff members are poorly informed on punishments corresponding to certain offenses; yesterday I've seen Cuadroto ban two players for 3 days each, with the reason of being caught with an disallowed modified client (hack). Some time ago, cheating was punished with 7 days of ban on the first offense, now 5 days, but admins ban players for only 3. If you keep it this way, cheating might as well become legal.

     On the topic of the 3-day bans for hacking, I've recently had a discussion with FreakyForester (which also witnessed the unfairly short ban) and he told me that (from what he knows) first offense of hacking is sanctioned with 5 days of ban, and consequent offenses are sanctioned with a permanent ban, although donors never get banned for more than 30 days, no matter what kind or how many rules he has violated.

     All staff members should be obliged to know the server rules and according punishments, granted they can issue the /rules command at their desire.

     On the lower side of the spectrum of punishments, there come rules forbidding item begging and things as such. Since most sanctions issued rely on player reports, your method of choice for informing a staff member of a rule breaker is reporting him on the forums, which takes time, and on certain rules, it's only punished with a mere "warn", which is in more than all cases ignored, and the effort and time of making a complaint simply isn't worth a "warning" on the annoying player.

     Certain illegal activities and behaviors involving in-game items are barely punished at all. Here are some examples: Abusing fly or game-mode to kill another player. This makes the victim lose his/her items, which may require quite a struggle to come by. The punishment consists of a couple hours of jailing, and in most cases the items aren't confiscated from the offender and refunded to the victim.

     Again, on the topic of items there come illegal items (acquired by using game-mode or other means). This kind of stuff roams all around Pure Survival, which greatly devalues the work of legit players. Just yesterday, I had to deal with a beggar (which I brought to my place, my fault); I gave him two and a half stacks of food, and he kept on begging for items, after which I told him that i already gave him enough food to sustain him without worries for a good chunk of time, to get him started. He simply stayed in my base begging for items for half an hour, after which I knocked him off my oil rig. About 30-45 minutes later, he arrived at another player and started begging for items again. However, that player simply gave him 16 blocks of diamond. That's a frigging lot! its 144 diamonds, or two stacks and a quarter, a dozen-dozen, or essentially just above half of my available stock of diamonds, which I earned using human sweat, and that one player simply gave them away to a fresh new player. If I was him, I would have denied such a "gift", I would have even reported him. I mean, don't people realize that such stuff ruins their whole game-play?

     I hope you see my point, and I'm awaiting replies.

[SuperSlimesKing]

I agree with the whole topic. Not everyone can understand the rules, so translating them to more languages would be a good thing to do. When a player swears and uses caps in chat, a 1h mute should be a warning, cause /warns are mostly ignored. And about illegal items, it really has become a problem to see newbies with diamond block houses and players that use sharpness 1000 swords to win in PvP, especially in ps .

[SpintecatorulAlb]

2 minutes ago, SuperSlimesKing said:

I agree with the whole topic. Not everyone can understand the rules, so translating them to more languages would be a good thing to do. When a player swears and uses caps in chat, a 1h mute should be a warning, cause /warns are mostly ignored. And about illegal items, it really has become a problem to see newbies with diamond block houses and players that use sharpness 1000 swords to win in PvP, especially in ps .

I'm happy to see that someone gets what I'm trying to say. It's simply utter crap when you see players in the Spawn area fully dressed in diamond, but they only have 80 power level and feed on rotten flesh.

[Terminator]

Hi,
consequent punishments on breaking the same rule DO have a bigger punishment, and yes we do look at the history of players checking how many times they broke a rule (or at least I do?), but 60% of the players' histories were affected by Staff member accounts being hacked (more than a year ago?) and all players getting around 10~ or more punishments in their history and not all of them are to be counted in. 

As for the punishment for Hacked Clients iirc the punishment for the 1st Offense was 7 days. No idea about any bans of 5 days and 3 days for the Hacked Client rule.
As for FreakyForester and what he knows I can tell you only he was a staff member from 2(or 3?) years ago, and rules do change.

As for item begging we all know the first punishment is a warning, just like spamming etc, and if you think that making a forum complaint for just a warn isn't worth of your time, don't do it, do you expect us to issue the 2nd Punishment instantly just because you used your time on making a complaint? And then talk about how we don't know the rules? Ok.

"Certain illegal activities", why haven't you reported these activities? Are you trying to keep them for yourself so you can tell us we aren't punishing something we don't know who and what does?

35 minutes ago, SpintecatorulAlb said:

Again, on the topic of items there come illegal items (acquired by using game-mode or other means). This kind of stuff roams all around Pure Survival, which greatly devalues the work of legit players.

"Illegal Items acquired by using game-mode or other means", once again, why aren't illegal items being reported about? We are trying our best to keep the server clean of illegal activities but we can't keep an eye of everyone and that's why complain section on the forum exists, so other players which see something report it there. And unless you are going to PvP I don't see why would you care about others' fun of getting those items and progressing through the world survival. If they don't want the experience of doing all the progress through overworld, deep seas and nether it's their choice.

 

Translating the rules? If players don't bother learning 1 adittional language in their lives we should bother learning theirs? No thanks. And I'm sure that 

35 minutes ago, SpintecatorulAlb said:

players with 2+ page long lists of bans

would realise what they've done wrong by now.

Sharpness 1000 Swords? I didn't see a post in the complaints, are you using that kind of sword or are you hiding that others are using it? If I were you i'd go to complaints section. ^^
 

 

[SpintecatorulAlb]

6 minutes ago, Terminator said:

we do look at the history of players checking how many times they broke a rule (or at least I do?)

I'm proud of you, and yes, there are cases where staff won't look at previous punishments.

10 minutes ago, Terminator said:

As for the punishment for Hacked Clients iirc the punishment for the 1st Offense was 7 days. No idea about any bans of 5 days and 3 days for the Hacked Client rule.

Under /rules 2, look at rule 6. It has been lowered to 5 days. As for the 3 day ban...

13 minutes ago, Terminator said:

As for item begging we all know the first punishment is a warning, just like spamming etc, and if you think that making a forum complaint for just a warn isn't worth of your time, don't do it, do you expect us to issue the 2nd Punishment instantly just because you used your time on making a complaint? And then talk about how we don't know the rules? Ok.

Quote

2nd Punishment

Haven't I already covered "second punishments"???

14 minutes ago, Terminator said:

"Certain illegal activities", why haven't you reported these activities? Are you trying to keep them for yourself so you can tell us we aren't punishing something we don't know who and what does?

"Illegal Items acquired by using game-mode or other means", once again, why aren't illegal items being reported about?

Because a screen of the chat, the access to a translator (if need be) or a screen of a player dressed in full diamond armor with <100 Power level eating rotten flesh in spawn isn't considered enough proof for the know-it-all staff of this server.

20 minutes ago, Terminator said:

I'm sure that players with 2+ page long lists of bans would realise [sic] what they've done wrong by now.

...and they'll keep on doing so.

23 minutes ago, Terminator said:

Sharpness 1000 Swords? I didn't see a post in the complaints.

Well, I had to deal with one punch KO players that I did report, one of them used hacked clients for the second time (and MarceLoL confirmed it), you yourself banned each one for 20 days after which the ban evaded, yet you still took care of them and for some odd reason AdriStrike shortened BOSSofRAID's ban to 7 days.

28 minutes ago, Terminator said:

are you using that kind of sword or are you hiding that others are using it? If I were you i'd go to complaints section. ^^

Now don't be cocky...

 

Don't take it personal, Terminator, this topic isn't meant for you, you're doing all good. It's directed towards the leaders of CraftersLand, maybe they can do something to remedy the issue.

[Terminator]

25 minutes ago, SpintecatorulAlb said:

Because a screen of the chat, the access to a translator (if need be) or a screen of a player dressed in full diamond armor with <100 Power level eating rotten flesh in spawn isn't considered enough proof for the know-it-all staff of this server.

I mean, anyone could have given a player diamonds, we can't know who did it, so you can't expect someone to get punished, ofc unless you know who did it. ^^

As for this http://www.craftersland.net/networkbans/info.php?type=ban&id=10433 , it is not up to me to tell him what to do as a lower staff member, but if @Cuadroto did it i'd love to hear why in PM's  

 

 

28 minutes ago, SpintecatorulAlb said:

...and they'll keep on doing so.

And they'll keep getting punished, and I don't see what does this have to do with the suggestion of translating the rules.

And well, topic is meant for all of us, is it not. I feel like I should answer. ^^

[SuperSlimesKing]

Termi, No one said you have to bother learning their language, you can use a translator and for sharpness 1K swords, I was just giving an example, it can be anything that kills with 1 hit. I had some problems with players that use lapis lazulli to kill with 1 hit and reported them in complaints.

[Twynics]

I agree with this thread. 

I have done a lot of reports recently and it pains me to see that it is mostly the same players violating the rules. They usually break them again after about an hour of being punished. This needs to stop and I think that translating the rules is a good idea as a lot of the players on this server are Spanish and some other language that I fail to understand. 

This is probably a lack of severity from punishments prior, language difference or failure to even see they were punished in the first place (as the warnings are rather small, I must admit). Maybe a warning that came up right in the centre of your screen (like whenever you place a wool) along with a sound would be better! This would also cut down on the amount of excuses from players not seeing warnings (not that I have heard of any but I just assume there is).

[SpintecatorulAlb]

Huge necro, but at least somebody's back to check what's been happening around here. I happen to care about this server.

On the topic of lack of multilingual rules, players have NO excuses for not understanding them. Crafter's Land is a former Romanian server with a Romanian founder that decided to extend the server's borders all across Europe. English is a, or better said the main language of CL.

Also, not a single rational reasoning for shortening punishments comes to my mind. Are you trying to compensate for a low-pop by welcoming back bandits sooner than necessary? In the first place, the server is low-populated thanks to all sorts of abusers and cheaters. These have to be gone for a good player-base to settle.

By the way, why are none of the staff members subscribed to the Complaints sub-forum? That would probably shorten response time and stop a hobo from making someone a bad day.

On 8/4/2017 at 4:50 PM, Terminator said:

 

On 8/4/2017 at 4:19 PM, SpintecatorulAlb said:

Quote

I'm sure that players with 2 page long ban lists would realize what they've been doing wrong by now.

 

...and they'll keep on doing so.

And they'll keep getting punished, and I don't see what does this have to do with the suggestion of translating the rules.

That exposes one big flaw, or should we call it loophole?

The gravity of punishments for breaking the rules is far lower than the gains.

(Now don't you dare to ask what gains. Gains of rule-breaking: people break rules for their own interest: acquiring an unfair advantage over other players.)

That's why endlessly increasing lists of bans are a thing, because by breaking rules players acquire much more than they lose.

Fortunately, there are ways of combating this:

• Obviously, increase punishment duration.
• You should also try to increase the gravity of warnings.
• Make sure all gains of rule breaking are removed from the culprit. (That imposes house inspection and confiscation of illegal items in the case of players bearing such things.)
• Once a player has commited enough illicit actions, this should happen.

Please forward this to the administration team in case my mentions will be doing what has this topic done for two months @Powerwarp @Myiume @brunyman

[Terminator]

We already made a list with new rules and adjustments, they just need to be added. And powerwarp is aware of it, i will remind him about it soon and we will see what we will do about it.