Question regarding a rule.

[Avine]

[4] No sale/gifting creative/illegitimate items to members outside of your town:

• 1st offense = 2 days ban of both parties involved.
• 2nd offense = 7 days ban.
• 3rd offense = 14 days ban.

Creative Players who leave a town must take with them or destroy all creatively spawned items.  Non-Creative Players who leave any town are to leave empty handed. Non-Creative Players and Creative Players who are part of a Creative town are to live in only one town or only in Creative towns. Players who are part of a Creative town are not allowed to sell/trade items.

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I've recently purchased Premium+ on Infinity Evolved which contains "/gm 1" command,  meaning i can't sell anything that is spawned in via this command when you do spawn something in it will be tagged with "Spawned in by: *name*" pretty clear that this wouldn't be allowed to be traded or sold but where do you draw the line what is and isn't allowed to be sold? 

I could for example spawn an ME System to hold and/or autocraft items to be sold on the market, would that will count as cheated in ? or use tinkers "InfiMiner" to farm an ore to be sold, again would that count? none of those examples would be tagged with "Spawned in by: *name*" 

Not to mention that this rank give you more market slots to sell items so i surely can't be straight up banned from selling can i? or does it just have to not contain the Tag (Spawned in by: *name*)

Not sure where i stand on this so i don't end up getting myself banned or something lol only thing i intend to spawn in is ME system stuff because i can't stand setting up and crafting it (expert mode or not, i miss 1.6.4 AE  ), but if i spawn that in does that mean no more selling ?

Tis a very grey area haha.

 

 

Also on a side note if a mod/admin could sync my rank to my forum account that would be awesome

[Voodoo]

The rules are concrete, If you have access to Creative mode, you may not participate in the servers economy, you may not buy/sell items, gift or recieve items from other players.

If you however live in a township with another player without creative access, you are both exempt from the economy equally.

 

Creative tag or no, if you have creative access, you are NOT ALLOWED to sell/buy/gift/receive items from non creative players. 

 

[Avine]

can you link me where it states that if i have creative access i'm not allowed to use it ?

if i wasn't allowed to use it, why would i get extra listings? 

• "Can create up to 10 market listings. (default is 5)"

[Voodoo]

Never did i say you can't use creative access if you have it.  I said, that if you have creative access, you cannot participate in the server economy. 

And about the extra listings,  You can opt to have your creative access disabled, so you may rejoin the economy, in which case the extra listings might prove useful. 

[Avine]

1 minute ago, Voodoo said:

Never did i say you can't use creative access if you have it.  I said, that if you have creative access, you cannot participate in the server economy. 

And about the extra listings,  You can opt to have your creative access disabled, so you may rejoin the economy, in which case the extra listings might prove useful. 

ahh i meant access to market not creative itself (it's like 2:30am lol)

didn't know you could get it removed, that does make sense if it got removed though.

[Voodoo]

Its what i did but.. there is a but. If you have a base which was made using creative. You will have to start again. 

And if you built your base then got creative access. You could request a rollback to before you had creative access  

[Avine]

1 minute ago, Voodoo said:

Its what i did but.. there is a but. If you have a base which was made using creative. You will have to start again. 

And if you built your base then got creative access. You could request a rollback to before you had creative access  

yee i'm not starting overxD only thing i've spawned is an AE system , but i'm not willing to give up not having to craft and mess with wires in AE2, ill get it removed if we ever got a 1.10.2+ pack with Refined storage   

[Voodoo]

i recommend you keep your items to yourself or face the consiquences.  All parties involved would be punished. So think first. 

And have fun most of all!! 

 

 

[brunyman]

I think this is too restrictive, creative items have the creative tag, directly creative items is not possible because they are tagged. Normally crafting with creative items will get the creative tag on the crafted item also, but this may be bypassed by using other mods to craft items as these don't trigger events.

[Voodoo]

i think if people with creative access are denied the ability to drop items, and perform certain commands like /market, but this wouldn't stop it all together as people would still be able to place items in chests.. and place items to be broken, there's a lot of ways to bypass it, i.e, if a creative player places an block which has a creative tag, then a player without creative breaks this block, the tag is removed.  

Perhaps, players with creative access are to be placed in a creative only world, with different inventories to the creative world? and Creative be disabled for everyone in survival worlds.

so when they teleport to the survival world, they have their survival inventory? this would eliminate any possibilities for players to be given legitimate items.

Just an idea?

 

[quagma]

You see, the reason for this rule is because people keep finding ways to remove the tags to give the items to people. And since there is no way for us staff to tell the difference, it's far better to restrict all trading and economy use from them, than to have creative items spread through the server. 

[Guest IIonions]

What you could do is ask some people who have the access on ways around the tag (some of which I know how to do). Most of them are fixable (provided functions are similar to other functions in different languages), I just don't know if they are known or not. We could always come up with suggestions as to how to help, I just don't know where to report this, it also seems pretty funny how we get extra market slots but cant use it. However IIRC you used to be allowed to use the market.

[Voodoo]

On 10/7/2017 at 2:20 AM, Voodoo said:

about the extra listings,  You can opt to have your creative access disabled, so you may rejoin the economy, in which case the extra listings might prove useful. 

Covered the market listings above,

 

[Voodoo]

Whilst were on the topic of rules, here's one.

[8] No Griefing Any Protected Territory:

• 1st offense = 7 days ban.
• 2nd offense = 14 days ban.
• 3rd offense = 28 days ban.
• 4th offense = 60 days ban.

Includes everything that changes the environment of claimed land. Includes any block, item, action, liquid, that can bypass protection. Includes Griefing of own Town if other members did not agree and worked hard. Griefing spawn is a permanent ban.

[12] No Threats of or Intentional Harm to Server Integrity:

• 1st offense = warning.
• 2nd offense = 1 day ban.
• 3rd offense = 3 days ban.
• 4th offense = 7 days ban.

Includes threatening to DDOS, Grief, etc. Don't make lag on purpose.

 

I have coloured all the relevant information in red and underlined it.  Just a question of where do you draw the line between:

Griefing = 7 day ban, and

Harming the servers integrity = warning

[Henk]

@Voodoo

[12] No Threats of or Intentional Harm to Server Integrity:

• 1st offense = warning.
• 2nd offense = 1 day ban.
• 3rd offense = 3 days ban.
• 4th offense = 7 days ban.

This rule pretty much just means intentionally crashing the server, ddosing etc- or threatning to do so.(even threats to grief someone.) Not griefing itself, Whilst if someone griefs they will go by the other rule you mentioned, rule 8- unless it's spawn grief. In that case it's perm.

 

 

 

As for the creative rule, I don't think there would be possible to make any better plugin than what we currently have and since that is not enough I think the way we treat the rule should stay. 

Few thoughts of how to make the plugin different: 

1. Have the plugin detect what items you spawn in, then "blacklist" you from market/auctioning any ID by that item - However you could still do local trades. Not safe enough, and that might be tricky with NEI.
2. Put a warning up before they buy a rank about the economy, and after they get the rank they can still trade and everything, until they spawn in/go into creative for the first time- it will hinder them to do so with a message " Going into creative will block you from trading. Run the command again if you accept ". And then after that they are blocked from auction and market, with a message displaying saying " If you changed your mind about trading, you are going to have to rollback your character and town to XX/XX/XXX XX:XX  - if this time is beyond 20-30 days it is no longer possible. That way people can just screenshot that to request a rollback if they change their mind. 

 

I don't really see a good way to enforce the creative rules, and the creative tags is a good idea but it's too easy and this gets abused too often. Something more needs to be done, 2nd suggestion is messy and long, but I think that would in a better way broadcast the message on how things are done

[Yusixs]

From Henk's two points, option 2 seems more feasible. Yes, it's slightly complicated for normal users to follow, but from a developers point of view, option 2 would consume alot less RAM and processing power compared to the former. I've developed an anti-swear and spam bot within a week and even though it may not seem much, having a message be checked within an array of 500+ words does take a fair amount of RAM compared to everything else.

Lets compare this to minecraft, for Option 1, when a person spawns in an item via creative mode, an object array is created in a json file/other storage type methods with the spawned in item's ID as a sub-object of the player ID that spawned it in. That alone under intense hours where 4-6 people are using creative will likely cause corruption with some issues down the road. Then we have the blacklist checking part of the plugin. On every command execution event, it checks if the command executed was market related or auction related command. Then, it checks players ID if it matches with any ID in the stored json/whatever file, then it compares the item ID in hand with the item ID in blacklist and execute the code to allow the user to sell that item or not. Both of these main steps combined will surely use alot of computing power, including the fact to add some countermeasure code to prevent same Player ID -> Item ID being written twice etc.

While for Option 2, the object array json storage method would more or less be the same, but only with the Player's ID and date of when it happened. This alone would reduce alot of RAM issues needed compared to option 1's storage method since it wouldn't need to update multiple times for the same player, it's either that the player's name is in the blacklist or it isn't. Then for the blacklist checking, it would just simply check for the command execution event as shown in Option 1, check if it's a market or auction related command. Then compare the player's ID who executed the auction command with the player's ID in the object array and finally it would execute the code to allow the player to sell the item or not. Comparing this to option 1, you'd use alot less computing power since you're skipping the item ID checking part which in the long run would've created 100's of item ID's for a single creative player. The only downside is your corporation needed for allowing you to grant your creative abilities/removing them. Aswell as the ~30 day time limit.

If anyone has any other idea which wouldn't use that much computing power plugin-wise then it would be appreciated aswell. These 2 options aren't full-fledged conclusions aswell. People will find a way to bypass these trading restrictions as Voodoo said. This would just decrease the amount of auction/market trading between creative and non-creative players, not completely eliminate it. Otherwise we would have to stick to keeping the rule as it is unfortunately.

Though i'll say this, even if either one of the options would get implemented, something would need to be done to avoid creative players sharing items with non-creative town members, which in return would end up in market listing by that non-creative person. There are just too many loopholes with this issue :D, that's why we've highly restricted this grey area with what quagma said.

[Lancelot]

While we discuss what is best option here I would suggest to broadcast a message on all servers that players with creative access are not allowed to participate in economy. This way players without creative access could be aware of issue too (and it is needed they know since they are facing ban punishment too if they buy from creative user).

[Avine]

imo my preference would be to separate the rank on the web store [Sponsor+[Legit](Maybe replace creative mode with a /kit to keep the incentive to upgrade your rank?)

 and [Sponsor+[Creative](With no kit) something along those lines, that way you know what you're buying into before hand with a clear description that you will not be entitled to use the market to sell items with the creative rank.

Seems like the easiest and quickest solution without the need to mess with plugins.

[Voodoo]

I think @Avine93 has a good idea here, it would certainly decrease the amount of Creative disable requests players place, and add this option for every rank that would receive creative maybe?

With the creative ranks having some kind of tell tale mark in their prefix to show that they have access to creative. like C-Sponsor+ or Cr-Premium+  and the non creatives having

S-Premium+ for survival?

 

@Lancelot And the broadcast stating that all creative players must not trade or sell items, and both parties will be punished, is a good idea too.  And should be implemented asap. 

[SoullessSushi]

I wish I could like the comments 20 times. It is SUCH a good idea to have seperate ranks, so depending if you would like to have the rank and the perks of sponsor besides creative, it would be awesome if there was a special rank to buy. You could always get the creative access added back on instead of going through the trouble of rollbacks and whatnot. 

[Avine]

On 10/10/2017 at 8:08 PM, Avine said:

imo my preference would be to separate the rank on the web store [Sponsor+[Legit](Maybe replace creative mode with a /kit to keep the incentive to upgrade your rank?)

 and [Sponsor+[Creative](With no kit) something along those lines, that way you know what you're buying into before hand with a clear description that you will not be entitled to use the market to sell items with the creative rank.

Seems like the easiest and quickest solution without the need to mess with plugins.

Ok just to back this suggestion up even more, i've just found out to remove GMC/NEI it's done alongside a rollback, meaning i'm going to loose everything i've done since starting on skyfactory server and wasted my /bal on items i've bought to. 

This should be enough incentive to separate the ranks containing GMC/NEI access because people could loose a lot of progress and could end up being a massive hassle in the long run ill be asking for an exception to be made as i've only gone into creative upon the request of a staff member, but if that doesn't work it's not like i'm willing to start over again...

[Henk]

We had that suggestion up for along time- that we would have different ranks if they have creative or not- but since only bruny can do it we never got around to it being added. But hopefully it will be this time  

[Avine]

23 minutes ago, Henkekalmar said:

We had that suggestion up for along time- that we would have different ranks if they have creative or not- but since only bruny can do it we never got around to it being added. But hopefully it will be this time  

I hope so would have prevented my issues i'm having atm..., i've asked for an exception to be made when removing my GMC to not do a rollback as i've never used the command (Other than a staff member asking to check if i had it) everything is legit, if i have to start over it'll be a case of leaving crafterland until 1.10.2 skyfactory comes here.