Remove GMC from ranks ~ Under Discussion

[JokoJose]

Greetings,

          For the past week i have seen how people that use creative and those that doesn't have had a crash between them.  For players that don't use creative, we feel like creative is a game breaking addition and disturb the "race" to reach high tiers among ourselves. For example, If it took me 1 week to reach LV, a creative person will be ZPM in less than 1 hour. While them being in high tier does not affect the way we play, it does affect the server stability. 

Example:

1- A creative person can spawn in any number of item without limitation, allowing that person to set up an entire solar power system in a matter of minutes. Or many, Many automated process to produce items. Those process take a toll on the server tps and because the creative person in question didn't have to gather the mats, he/she will have no problem spawning as many as he/she want. 

2- Creative people can spawn the materials to craft a machine, while the materials are tagged as spawned, the machine they build with those spawned items are not tagged as spawned. Meaning that the person in question can craft machines to give to a non-creative player.

3- Creative people can also spawn the most efficient way of mining ores and/or oil and once again, while the machine, if spawned, is tagged as spawned, the ores/oil it gathers is not tagged as spawned. Meaning that the creative person in question can pass the ores/oil to another person that is not creative. 

4- Creative people can also instantly spawn rockets of any tier and fly to any planet, even when most people are still in steam age. Then they can just fly to highly demand planets and "empty" them out of resources before people can even reach them. 

5- Creative people can also lagg the server with in many ways, from massive amount of spawned item, to constantly flying to laggy planets like ross. 

 

 

In other words, creative ranks hurt the server more than what it helps it. So my suggestions are the next:

1- Remove creative entirely = While i know creative might generate a good revenue for the server, it shouldn't exist in such a hardcore modpack like GTNH.

2- Only allow structural block on creative = This will still give the creative to those that want it, but will limit them to only structural items to build a base. Like chiseled blocks, but remove access to any ore/ingot/fuel/machinery or any material that is not used to build the structural part of a base. 

3- Creative server only = while this is more cost to owners pocket, it will create 2 separated server, 1 for creative people and one for non creative people. In that way you dont have to be monitoring who gives what to whom. It will also remove the stress cause by creative people on server with non-creative players. 

4- Move creative rank to S+ but with structural purpose only = Creative is the strongest tool in the game, it should be the most expensive perk to buy too, but it should be limited. 

 

Only those that have played GTNH will understand the issue with creative, so my last recommendation is for the owner to try the modpack and then decide for himself after he experience the modpack and the pros and cons of creative. You cannot sell a product if you don't understand it, sometimes you might lose more money when your only focus is money and not customer service. 

I meant no disrespect to anyone, everyone is welcome to add their opinion in a respectful way, either to agree with me or disagree. Everyone deserves to be read. 

(On a side note, P+ has a perk of retain exp when you die, but that perk is not working at all, please take a look at it, thanks)

[_Fefa_]

I agree

[Hegemon]

I agree entirely with Joko on this issue.   People playing creative have "creative" available to them in single player always.  The only reason I can see for playing creative with noncreative players it to lord it over them  so you can be better than them.  This creates  a poisoned environment for the majority that is noncreative.   I come to this conclusion from observing creative players and thier love of showing the things they have in general chat.  

[Azzyj]

I 100% agree with the points of this suggestion.  Any of the suggested solutions would be an improvement over what is happening on the server right now.   I understand the potential issues with 'removing' a perk after it has been paid for and I'm uncertain as to how this can be resolved in a manner that makes everyone happy.    I hope that some sort of compromise can be attained as the current atmosphere is quickly becoming 'toxic' due to the polarized play styles and the strong opinions of the players in the pack.     If it is player numbers that you are concerned about, I assure you that true GTNH players are attracted to lag free servers, not ones with creative perks.  

[ASOOD]

yeah, I agree on keeping creative for building blocks only  

[Dank42084]

I Disagree, and Say that if it Gets Removed,I think there should be a Refund issued due to Removing a Perk that the Consumer has bought, Its also Usefull for building, but its also good to Give your stuff back if you, for say die and cant get it back or something bugs and we lose stuff,not to mention there are rules set in place for the GMC, for players to not break the game for other players/ECO Because its very inconvenient for US PLAYERS to Wait on staff to fix it  or to make a Item  Refund Request/Rollback . It's very Usefull to have GMC for building and all OUR other needs, 

 

 REMOVING Will Most Likely Reduce Customers from buying PREMIUM+ and UP due to Not having GMC anymore, as its a Major Incentive to buy That Rank and Above, Leading to Making Less money as there is no Other perks that give those Rank much Value.

                                    KEEP GMC!

[Goatflakes]

I can see it both ways. On one hand crashes and bad TPS is not good, but on the other it's not really fair to those that did buy it to just say no you can't have it anymore. Another thing that can adversely affect play is giving away stuff to players not playing creative, it can kind of wreck it for them even though it can be tempting at the time. Although I guess that's their lookout.

I'm not sure on the technicalities of Minecraft 1.7.10 performance, but would it be possible to run two servers on the same physical server without impacting performance? I mean modern CPUs have multiple cores, but apparently 1.7.10 mostly only uses one thread. So perhaps it's possible, though clearly it would also need more RAM and network bandwidth. So I don't know if this is feasible to do without increasing cost. But if it is perhaps there could be the original server unchanged and a new one with no creative. Again, this might not be practical at all, just a suggestion.

[blox18854]

I agree. Creative does put a major imbalance in the server - while it is inevitable that players will reach that stage and TPS will decline, it is not fair that someone can spawn items in and kill early game tps making it harder for others to progress. I think the seperate creative server is the best solution but would take more money from the owner's pockets. Second best solution is to remove the rank and refund the players for what they bought. The building only solution is interesting, but would still require a compromise for the user who paid money for their perks. While creative would be fine in other modpacks, it does not belong in a pack like GTNH which is so solely focused on time-consuming progression. 

[BradleyTd89]

56 minutes ago, Dank42084 said:

I Disagree, and Say that if it Gets Removed,I think there should be a Refund issued due to Removing a Perk that the Consumer has bought, Its also Usefull for building, but its also good to Give your stuff back if you, for say die and cant get it back or something bugs and we lose stuff,not to mention there are rules set in place for the GMC, for players to not break the game for other players/ECO Because its very inconvenient for US PLAYERS to Wait on staff to fix it  or to make a Item  Refund Request/Rollback . It's very Usefull to have GMC for building and all OUR other needs, 

 

 REMOVING Will Most Likely Reduce Customers from buying PREMIUM+ and UP due to Not having GMC anymore, as its a Major Incentive to buy That Rank and Above, Leading to Making Less money as there is no Other perks that give those Rank much Value.

                                    KEEP GMC!

I agree with Dank42084's statement.

[iiTzFermin_]

Hi, I could not agree more

Not only in GTNH server they have this problem in Network we go through the same mainly in PureSurvival

The permission of the creative ruins a survival it is very frustrating to be playing a survival progressing little by little and that the players with this permission take everything of the creative, as well as the creative opens the doors to endless abuses

Sorry for my english

[Hegemon]

6 hours ago, Dank42084 said:

 

 

[JokoJose]

Well while i understand some people like the easy way rather than work hard for the items, i do not understand why do so on a public server instead of in single player. I can only thing of 2 things, the person is looking for a social interaction, which is understandable, or the person is looking to show off and belittle those playing legit.

For example, a creative player can spawn any item of the game, lets say a Xbow and bolts that can 1 shot anything. Then that player decide to go to every planet before anyone else reach it and clear every dungeon he can, even tho that he dont need the items. Then when a non-creative player reach that planet, it might be forced to travel thousands of miles to find what he/she needs. 

But the real problem with creative is that there is virtually no limitation of how many items the person can spawn. 

 

If you have the power to spawn any item in the game, any quantity you want, what stop the player from spawning thousands of items or machinery? 

 

What if the creative player decide that "i need 50 nuclear power plants" just because he can. There is no work getting them, there is no penalty, there is no limitation. If that player wants to create 300 auto miners, what stop him/her from do so? 

 

A creative player can single handed destroy the integrity and balance of the server. While money is a factor to take in consideration, people flow is another factor, more people = more money. I am pretty sure the money will flow even without creative. 

 

But once again, the only way for staff members to understand what is going on, is to actually log in to the modpack itself, because if you guys do so, you will be the one reach the conclusion that creative hurts more than what it benefit. 

 

This is a hardcore modpack that gets affected by the amount of Tile entities the server has to load at a given time, giving the power to a person to spawn as many as he/she want without limitation, its going to kill the server eventually. 

 

Specially when it causing the server to restart ever 2 hours or so...

We need to be realistic, if a single person can hurt the stability of the server, imagine if every person get creative and start building without any control.

Limit creative to structure blocks only, remove it or make a creative server. But dont expect that non-creative players will stay quiet while creative players ruins the server for everyone. 

[Dank42084]

it restarts every few hours anyways and if this just happend, its not due to GMC its due to the server havin problems with people leaving shit on and not turning it off or keeping it in multiple chuncks

[JokoJose]

exactly, and what players have enough material to build in multiple chunk leaving everything on while at same time building a huge amount of machinery? 

The difference between non-creative players and creative players, is that non-creative can only build what he/she needs limited by how much material/time the person took. Now, creative placers build things that they dont actually need and because they didnt have to gather the materials, there is nothing limiting them. So at the end what players will have the most machinery and take the most resources from the server?

 

when there is no limitation, they wont use "common sense" because they can spawn whatever they want and build as much as they want in a single hour compared to non-creative player. 

[Dank42084]

then i think a Simple solution would be to Set GMC for only S+ or both S+ and S as they paid the most money and that would limit the amount of players that have it and can do stuff like that

[JokoJose]

the problem is that it only take a single player with creative to mess up the entire integrity of the server, a single person. Thats how broken creative is in this modpack. Because they wont limit themselves, they wont use common sense. All they will do is spawn and build as much as they can. 

[JokoJose]

playing GTNH with people that have creative power, is like playing a shooter game against people with aimbot. It only take 1 person, to ruin the gaming experience for the rest.

[Dank42084]

then those with it should be Listed for staff to check first for issues and if they are gone for a month or more at a time should get there stuff wiped

[brunyman]

Hi, keep in mind that the lag is not caused by creative, but by some setups, like some mods interact badly with others and when you scale them like crazy it builds up. We find most of laggy bases are not from players with creative access. The creative access was added mainly to gather more funds to be able to keep stuff running and also expand because else you die. Mainly players that get creative access play alone or in a small group and don't interact a lot with others, still there are exceptions indeed what we can do is keep the pearks for players that already have creative access and remove it for new purchases, in time less and less players will have creative access. Should we open a vote pool for these changes?

[Kiyanox]

1 hour ago, brunyman said:

Hi, keep in mind that the lag is not caused by creative, but by some setups, like some mods interact badly with others and when you scale them like crazy it builds up. We find most of laggy bases are not from players with creative access. The creative access was added mainly to gather more funds to be able to keep stuff running and also expand because else you die. Mainly players that get creative access play alone or in a small group and don't interact a lot with others, still there are exceptions indeed what we can do is keep the pearks for players that already have creative access and remove it for new purchases, in time less and less players will have creative access. Should we open a vote pool for these changes?

Sounds good, would like to see how many people want to see gmc removed. 

[iiTzFermin_]

3 hours ago, brunyman said:

Hi, keep in mind that the lag is not caused by creative, but by some setups, like some mods interact badly with others and when you scale them like crazy it builds up. We find most of laggy bases are not from players with creative access. The creative access was added mainly to gather more funds to be able to keep stuff running and also expand because else you die. Mainly players that get creative access play alone or in a small group and don't interact a lot with others, still there are exceptions indeed what we can do is keep the pearks for players that already have creative access and remove it for new purchases, in time less and less players will have creative access. Should we open a vote pool for these changes?

Hi, this would also apply in Network ?

The highest level of abuse is concentrated in Netwrok it is regrettable but it is the truth

PureSurvival's server crashed more than once due to massive griefings and this they manage to do thanks to the creative

It would be great to open a vote pool 

[JokoJose]

is there any way to limit creative to structures block only? in that way you dont have to remove it completely and still get money from the perk. Our main concern is that as of now, creative have no limitation whatsoever on how many machines they can build and as of right now the tps on the server is extremely awful. Non-creative player have to wait like 5 mins on process that should take 1 minute or so, meanwhile creative can just keep spawning whatever they need, so tps dont really bother or affect them at all.

This is the main issue, when someone has a perk that can hurt the rest of the community, then that perk needs to be review. Because once the server becomes really unplayable it will be too late. This server been up for like what, 2 month? and it already reached this bad tps stage, a bad tps that i only seen in official servers that are 5 years old.

[Hegemon]

If we are stuck with Creative can we at least fix the rules about it.  As it is now creative players cannot exchange or use creative things with none creative players. Can this be expanded and policed because its a very simple thing to creative in some infinity ingots and then build a sword  the infinity sword instantly kills almost anything but since it was "made" it is not considered a spawned in item.  The essence of it is that it only exists because of spawned in items, no none creative player will be able to produce this without spending about a year on infrastructure yet the none creative infinity sword would be available in a few minutes with creative.  This has happened not with a sword but with items created using creative machines being offered for sale.  Further creative players give non creative players access to there machine so the non creative player is made into  a creative none creative, same problem they have access to power and production that takes anyone actually playing the game years to accomplish.  All of this destroys the economy and the game balance and any sense of accomplishment possible through the game.  It would be like installing an elevator to the summit of Mt. Everest anyone climbing it after that would only seem to be either eccentric or stupid.  

 

 

[Dank42084]

9 hours ago, brunyman said:

Hi, keep in mind that the lag is not caused by creative, but by some setups, like some mods interact badly with others and when you scale them like crazy it builds up. We find most of laggy bases are not from players with creative access. The creative access was added mainly to gather more funds to be able to keep stuff running and also expand because else you die. Mainly players that get creative access play alone or in a small group and don't interact a lot with others, still there are exceptions indeed what we can do is keep the pearks for players that already have creative access and remove it for new purchases, in time less and less players will have creative access. Should we open a vote pool for these changes?

I strongly Agree with what you said, But will it be able to be Transferd to other mods on the network? Because I myself Have been S+ for a long Awhile, and I myself Mainly play by myself or in a Small Group of people, i think this is the way to go and gives an extra Perk to those of which that choose to Support the server that much get something of same Value, It will also Keep less Trolls and Bad people from Abusing it without Paying alot for it.

[D34DPlayer]

This complaint isn't really against GMC itself but rather the consequences it could have if it isn't monitored correctly, your points being:

- Causing lag

- Bypassing tag and gifting/selling items

- Taking the resources from other dimensions

First of all you should take into account that only a minority of the GMC players have been involved in such cases so far. Wouldn't it be overboard to "punish" all the players that chose to support the server for something only a few people have done?

Then, the first and third point aren't only caused by GMC, as bruny pointed out, lag is more often than not caused by regular players and from a new player stand point, there's no difference between a dimension cleared by a few gmc players than a dimension cleared by players that have been playing longer than you have and got there before. Servers are asynchronous

Since lag is a major issue on any minecraft server, we are always working on finding the sources with the help of profilers and instructing the players about best practices when they make a laggy setup by mistake. Whether they have GMC or not.

About the tags issue, it's against the rules and punished heavily. Our staff keeps monitoring the GMC players to be sure that it doesn't happen and in case of doubt the GMC player gets restricted access to the market, so besides specific cases it shouldn't impact your experience of the modpack. We've been doing a good job with that on all our other modded servers so it should be good here as well.

About the dimensions, we have a mining dimension and that one and the other dimensions get wiped every now and then, so a dimension should never be totally empty. And if it happens to be you can make a post here and we will reset it.

 

As you can see, we are already aware of the issues you brought, since we have been handling with GMC players on all our other servers for a long time and so there are measures in place to prevent their behavior to impact your experience of the modpack.

Also, if a vote poll is opened, think this thoroughly and from all the perspectives, since as a non-GMC user voting against is the easy choice and could cause a bias, we should aim for a solution that satisfies everyone.