discussion [AC v1] Dealing with Spawn camping.

[Jimmel]

Right, camping. We've all seen it happening, seen how it ruins the experience for new players. A fair few of them would actually show themselves out the server instead of put up with campers blocking their way out of the spawn building. For years now, we've done nothing to deal with the issue once and for all. Now, I know @brunyman is busy with the servers and all, same with @Powerwarp and his exams.

In the meantime, I figured we'd talk solutions. There's at least a few topics scattered across the forum with different suggestions regarding the issue. I went ahead and put those together in one thread for everyone to have a look and share their own ideas with us.
 

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• Suggestion #1 - Extending the safezone perimeter around the main building.

Consists of increasing the safezone perimeter around spawn, giving everyone a bit more protected space and time to get around and spread out without fear of campers getting in their way. That way, newcomers stand a much better chance of making it out in one piece and seeing what the server's all about.

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• Suggestion #2 - Adding RandomTP signs.

Consists of adding a random tp plugin, and setting up signs at spawn that allow players to teleport to a variety of pre-selected regions across the main city, at a cost; say 5-10 coal pieces per tp? If anything, it should give people a fighting chance.

 

Suggested plugins:

 

https://dev.bukkit.org/projects/randomlocation - For MC server version 1.7.x, supports regions.

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• Suggestion #3 - Checkpoints.

A more creative concept. Won't say much as it's not my idea, however keep in mind that this would require some custom development and a considerable amount of time to implement. Original topic by @DeathMetal posted about a year ago but never got much attention at all.

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• Suggestion #4 - A new plugin to deal with the issue.

I suppose a PvP timer plugin could also work for new players. Say, give them a grace period of 30mins or so to get settled and whatnot. Credit to @♣ItsIsma29R♣DL♣ for bringing this up earlier today. Must say I'd be concerned for what happens next though, as this doesn't actually prevent camping efficiently enough.

 

Suggested plugins: (Credit: @♣ItsIsma29R♣DL♣)

 

 

 

- PvPTimer 1.1 - https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/pvptimer.19588/

- PvPTimer | HCF | - https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/pvptimer-hcf-1-8-x-1-7-x.26769/

- [Skript] PvPTimer - https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/skript-pvptimer-free.4645/

- PvPTimer 1.3 - https://dev.bukkit.org/projects/pvptimer

Otherwise, we're looking for a plugin that teleports players to a different location when standing within a certain area for (over) a specified amount of time. Now, that actually deals with the basic principle of camping. I guess you guys are free to point the staff to specific plugins down below.

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So that's a few thoughts on our camping problem. You got an idea of your own for dealing with this? Share your opinion with the rest of us. We're all here to help each other.

[Adriiibr]

Very nice ideas, but I prefear the random tp and some checkpoints around the map.

Maybe expanding the spawn could be a good idea but I don't like it at all. The 30min preiod in my opinion are too much, perhaps 10-15min could be better.

[Terminator]

Hello, first of all nicely done post Jim we do need a solution for this for a very long time now.
 

I will examine all of the Suggestions one by one so let's get started,

Suggestion #1 : It has potential, but the camping problem will only go further out of the borders. Now you may think that there is too many different routes,paths and exits to camp. But you can simply camp multiple exits at once with a bow by just standing on any of the towers I pointed out on the picture bellow, and trust me, predicting the way a player is going to go is very easy with a bow(at least for me).

Suggestion #2 : An interesting choice, yes it could be good, but yet some of the main low-cooldown yet high-reward dungeons are in the main city. And this wouldn't stop people from camping right there where the problem is. Yes, players would random-tp but they still need to do the dungeouns in this city and what then? Get camped again.


Suggestion #3 : I loved the idea a year ago and I still do, I don't have anything else to add to this.


Suggestion #4 :  A 30 minute No-PvP period would be a nice one, but you do not magically gain an iron/diamond armor in 30 minutes since when you started playing unless you know the map REALLY well.
                         As for the plugin that teleports players to a different location, I don't see this working properly as you could just run around the 2 chunks outside of the exit without standing in one place while camping.

[Jimmel]

18 minutes ago, AdriStrike said:

Very nice ideas, but I prefear the random tp and some checkpoints around the map.

Maybe expanding the spawn could be a good idea but I don't like it at all. The 30min preiod in my opinion are too much, perhaps 10-15min could be better.

Yeh, expanding the safezone would take away some of the usable space in the map, but it's a relatively quick and easy to implement solution. Really comes down to how bruny sees it, I guess.

Thanks for pinning this btw.

To @Terminator:

• Yes, towers could be an issue there. However I'm trying to base this on the fact people would have more time to at least get out and make a run for it. Since I doubt we'd have that many campers up on those towers -and even less blocking off every available path-, I thought I'd include this as an option.
• There would be a variety of available spots to spawn at, since we'd be doing this using regions and not actual positions. We could also make sure none of the selected regions is anywhere close to a dungeon or points players to one.
• You're mostly right about the PvP timer one. At the very least, it allows players to get familiar with the main city and perhaps do a bit better than they would otherwise.
• Now with the last one, you really have a point. Haven't thought this one through, but it would probably require a ton of custom development anyway. So, can't really see it happening regardless.

[Terminator]

35 minutes ago, Jimmel said:

Yes, towers could be an issue there. However I'm trying to base this on the fact people would have more time to at least get out and make a run for it. Since I doubt we'd have that many campers up on those towers -and even less blocking off every available path-, I thought I'd include this as an option.

Well, the point of this is also to not make new players "Run" for their lives from the point when they exit the safe zone.

[Jimmel]

Ah, can't argue with that. I'm just hoping there wouldn't be a ton of incidents of people camping on those towers for hours on end. It's not as convenient as standing right outside of an exit either.

Bottom line is, no solution is perfect. But hey, it's food for thought. You are all welcome to make suggestions, too. ^_^

[Zyko]

Voted for #2, but #3 is also interesting.

[ItsIsma29R || Official]

First I want to thank Jim for making this post, since have been speaking this morning about all the changes the server has.

My idea is suggestion 4º, i`ll explain it a little bit..:

As many will know, there is a plugin that is PvPTimer or PvPManager.. It is well known for those HardCore Factions (HCF) servers.. The plugin is to activate a period of protection to be able to gather enough materials/items to be able to enter PvP. All those users who enter new, could get a protection of 30/45 minutes. So you can have time to explore most of the map and be able to collect items without being attacked by a stronger users. 

 

How did I come up with this idea? 

Many of the new users, ask me for help amd I give them tutorials on how to get gold fast, food, coal, etc. 75% of users complain about being killed just leaving the spawn area.. So I do tphere in a remote area without strong users.

 

Plugins

- PvPTimer 1.1 - https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/pvptimer.19588/

- PvPTimer | HCF | - https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/pvptimer-hcf-1-8-x-1-7-x.26769/

- [Skript] PvPTimer - https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/skript-pvptimer-free.4645/

- PvPTimer 1.3 - https://dev.bukkit.org/projects/pvptimer

PS

If you find a better plugin, please make it public here!

[Powerwarp]

Really like the ideas, but short of time right now, will make a full reply at the weekend. 

[OmgimYasso]

Safezone shouldn't be bigger.

A random tp sign or a checkpoint will do the job. Simple as that.

[Jimmel]

Yeh, it's fine if you don't like the safe zone one; just an idea.

We do need to bring some attention to this though. It's an ongoing issue.

@brunyman @Powerwarp

[SuperSlimesKing]

I would like a combination of random tp signs and checkpoints around the map, but since that will take more work, I'll vote for just tp signs.

[KayWolves]

Greetings.

IMO I think RTL (Random TP Location) would not be the better idea, due to the map is very extensive and it's not builded at all, so they can get teleported to zones where they shouldn't be, and being in that zones gonna cause a punishment (Jail), I think the best idea would be increase the perimeter of the No PvP Zone.

[Jimmel]

Hey Kay, really appreciate the input. A lot of people seem to think the same about the random tp locations, so I'll explain. For this we'd have to use a plugin that supports regions. That way, the locations you're teleported to are fully customizable using smaller parts of the map called zones. So when someone uses that function, destination is a random selection from the zones you have set up, a random location in any of those zones to be exact. No one's found poking around where they shouldn't and everyone gets an easy way out of spawn.

Another concern about this is that players might end up too close to a dungeon entrance, or even in a dungeon(!). However that's simply not possible, as the locations you're teleported to are configurable and would in no way include such places.

A plugin old enough to work on v1:

https://mods.curse.com/bukkit-plugins/minecraft/randomlocation

[Powerwarp]

Sorry for my late reply, the week really went by slowly . I do believe that something should be done- it clearly is a big problem and scares new players away. The issue is how do we solve it, as all of these ideas do have flaws, except for your regions solution - but realistically I don't know if brunyman will add this in before the AC update, as he is busy with other server issues. What I think we need is a more simple, temporary fix, and then try and move onto a more complex solution - like your region idea.

The problem with increasing the safe zone size would mean that we would have to edit the map (remove loot and maybe some houses), which would decrease the map size, squashing players in a bit. Moreover, it wouldn't fix the problem entirely, as max-players could just jump around on top of the buildings in the safe zone and track players until they cross, which leads to a bit of confusion when punishing for spawn camping, as they would be constantly moving. Although there are a fair amount of issues, it does seem the most logical non-perminant fix right now, but I don't know if it is going to make it worse. I will speak to brunyman and try get his approval, we can trial it out for a week and see how it goes. Throughout the week if you have any suggestions, issues or concerns put them into this topic. Thanks for your work Jim, and everyone who replied to this topic. I have also moved it into suggestions. Let's see how this plays out, I will keep you updated.

 

[Jimmel]

Thanks for taking the time to reply here Power, I know you haven't had the chance to do much of this lately.

I'm aware of the concerns surrounding the safe zone suggestion, however like you said it's a quick fix if it turns out to work as expected, at least temporarily. It consists of expanding the perimeter around the main building just a little bit, which will inevitably throw a few chests that are too close to spawn, into protected territory. You can edit the rewards and cooldown and allow access or completely revoke access to the chests. We might not have to clear out too much space, it's really the north exit that's causing the most trouble. Alternatively you could just expand the safe zone that way. 

It's not an ideal solution, we can't be sure how it'll work out. I'm hoping it can give people some space and the required time to find a way out of spawn without getting killed the second they step out, that's the thinking behind it. I'm also aware of how busy bruny's been with the modded servers lately. It would be awesome if we could have 15mins of his time to set this up and see how it does. If it's not good, we trash it. If it performs at an acceptable level, we make the necessary adjustments and run with it until we can try a more complex fix that takes more work to implement.

Any updates are appreciated, thanks again.